Capitol Fax.com - Your Illinois News Radar » “Manning” bill clears Senate
SUBSCRIBE to Capitol Fax      Advertise Here      About     Exclusive Subscriber Content     Updated Posts    Contact Rich Miller
CapitolFax.com
To subscribe to Capitol Fax, click here.
“Manning” bill clears Senate

Thursday, Nov 20, 2014 - Posted by Rich Miller

* A controversial bill on behalf of firefighters passed overwhelmingly in the Senate today on a bipartisan rollcall. From the synopsis…

the case of fire fighter, and fire department or fire district paramedic matters, the arbitration decision shall be limited to wages, hours, and conditions of employment, including manning and also including residency requirements in municipalities with a population under 1,000,000. Effective immediately.

The “manning” aspect is the most controversial. It would mandate arbitration if contract negotiations failed to produce an agreement on staffing levels.

* Municipalities were steadfastly against it

Mayor Larry Morrissey says his town has to pay more for firefighting than is necessary because contract language requires that it be negotiated. As a result, when Rockford faced a revenue squeeze during the recession, the town had to cut its police force and other services. […]

In some contract negotiations, the haggling comes down to exactly how many firefighters will be on each truck that is dispatched.

“Our fire chief always says it’s not how many firefighters are on a truck, it’s how many assemble at the scene,” said Oak Lawn Mayor Sandra Bury, who is fighting to bring minimum-manning levels to three per truck to save taxpayer money. “Please don’t tie our hands. It’s expensive.”

The Associated Firefighters of Illinois is one of the most effective lobbying organizations at the Statehouse. Legislators love them some firefighters, man.

The legislation now goes to the governor.

       

28 Comments
  1. - Apocalypse Now - Thursday, Nov 20, 14 @ 1:21 pm:

    Another case of legislators bowing to the unions. Public sector unions are driving costs thru the roof at all levels of government with demands few, if any, can get in the private sector.


  2. - G.D. - Thursday, Nov 20, 14 @ 1:27 pm:

    I don’t think the Municipal League did themselves any favors with their Chicken Little routine on this bill. They should have recognized what they were up against and tried to work out a deal. Maybe limit the arbitrators scope to manning on a fire truck and not the total number of personnel in the department???

    Digging your heals in against a politically skilled and popular costituency group usually results in you getting steamrolled.


  3. - Amalia - Thursday, Nov 20, 14 @ 1:28 pm:

    “….including manning….” change all legislation to substitute
    staffing for the antiquated term manning.


  4. - Anon - Thursday, Nov 20, 14 @ 1:37 pm:

    How many mayors or city managers help with campaigns to the extent the firefighters do??


  5. - Anon - Thursday, Nov 20, 14 @ 1:46 pm:

    How many bankrupt communities have minimum manning?

    By my count, all of them. Scary.


  6. - Try-4-Truth - Thursday, Nov 20, 14 @ 1:49 pm:

    Please pay attention… This bill does not mandate staffing levels, it only says that it can be negotiated. Hardly a “give away” to the unions.


  7. - G.D. - Thursday, Nov 20, 14 @ 1:49 pm:

    Anon at 1:46, please list the “bankrupt” communities you speak of….or is this more of the Chicken Little routine?


  8. - Federalist - Thursday, Nov 20, 14 @ 1:52 pm:

    The firefighters and State Police get pretty much whatever they want.

    Seems to be true everywhere. Remember Scott Walker who abolished collective bargaining. Well he made an exception for firemen and cops.

    They are the demi-gods of public employment while everyone else is scum.


  9. - Ahoy! - Thursday, Nov 20, 14 @ 2:11 pm:

    –The Associated Firefighters of Illinois is one of the most effective lobbying organizations at the Statehouse. Legislators love them some firefighters, man.–

    Yes they do, which is a large reason why our municipalities are broke. Legislators love them because they don’t have to pay the price for bills they pass.


  10. - Sarge - Thursday, Nov 20, 14 @ 2:18 pm:

    To clarify — Staffing levels can already be negotiated, but both sides have to agree to it in the end. HB 5485 changes the law to include “manning” on the list of items that can be decided by arbitrators (along with wages, hours, and residency). That means unions don’t have to “negotiate” the issue at all to get it in front of an arbitrator - they just demand it and hold out.


  11. - Shemp - Thursday, Nov 20, 14 @ 2:18 pm:

    The horrible thing that could happen is the closure of stations. If you have 3 stations running 3 ff’s per engine and an arbitrator grants 4 as the minimum, you could see station closures so that a city runs 2 engines of 4 out of 2 stations for 8 ff’s rather than a total of 9 out of 3.

    Everyone wants maximum for public safety, but when it comes to funding it, everyone balks at their property taxes steadily increasing.


  12. - Jake From Elwood - Thursday, Nov 20, 14 @ 2:31 pm:

    Sarge, the failure to negotiate is a clear-cut unfair labor practice. As I see it, the only change in this bill is that arbitrators have clear jurisdiction over minimum manning issues if the parties reach impasse. This resolves years of legal wrangling over whether this was required or not.


  13. - walker - Thursday, Nov 20, 14 @ 2:33 pm:

    Manning levels are already subject to contract negotiation — that is what the municipalities are really objecting to.

    This bill is about mediation when contract negotiations fail. Of course the key elements subject to contract negotiation should also be subject to potential mediation, without some overwhelming reason to make an exception to that general rule.


  14. - Carl Nyberg - Thursday, Nov 20, 14 @ 3:16 pm:

    With better building codes & technology, need for firefighting declined.

    But need for paramedics increased.

    With passage of ACA there’s supposed to be less need for ER visits & primary care by paramedic.

    We don’t exactly know what staffing levels we need. Municipalities need to be smart about writing contracts.

    The optimal staffing levels may change as ACA takes effect.


  15. - Anonymous - Thursday, Nov 20, 14 @ 3:23 pm:

    Everyone is close to explaining what the bill does, but not quite there. Manning is currently a permissive subject of negotiation. Some court and administrative decisions have weighed in, on a case-by-case basis, on whether it is a mandatory subject of bargaining. As to Jake’s argument that refusal to negotiate is an unfair labor practice, that is only true if the topic involves a mandatory subject of bargaining.

    Regarding Walker’s comment, this isn’t really about mediation either. Though mediation is a remedy when parties are unable to reach agreement, contracts covering units of firefighters are subject to arbitration proceedings. The difference is key–mediation is not a binding proceeding; during arbitration, however, each side submits its last, best offer and an arbitrator issues an award detailing what term shall prevail for each topic of bargaining. Subject to some additional provisions, this award becomes the parties’ collective bargaining agreement. The arbitrator’s award, however, is constrained to mandatory subjects of bargaining. Because the status of manning has been unclear, the issue of whether the arbitration award may include a provision on manning has been hotly debated.


  16. - Anonymous - Thursday, Nov 20, 14 @ 3:36 pm:

    And of course, at 3:23 above, I should have said not that manning is a permissive subject, but that it is not clear whether it is mandatory or permissive.

    As an additional caveat, my comments paint a complicated aspect of labor negotiations in very broad strokes in an attempt to provide context for the bill.


  17. - A guy... - Thursday, Nov 20, 14 @ 3:38 pm:

    Maybe this will cause some Mayors and Managers to call their neighbors and start sharing some of their bunks, commercial refrigerators and big red trucks. Not to mention people.


  18. - Cowboy - Thursday, Nov 20, 14 @ 3:46 pm:

    This legislation is “stunningly bad.” Municipal officials advocate for taxpayers. The firefighters advocate for themselves. You can judge for yourself who is advocating for the better public policy.


  19. - Shemp - Thursday, Nov 20, 14 @ 3:51 pm:

    ===”Maybe this will cause some Mayors and Managers to call their neighbors and start sharing some of their bunks, commercial refrigerators and big red trucks. Not to mention people. “===

    Collective bargaining is making this nearly impossible too. Consolidating means less promotional opportunities as you reduce the top positions. IAFF doesn’t want fewer promotional opportunities for their membership.

    States such as Michigan have had success cross-training police officers to act as firefighters so they can assist the regular FT firefighters and put more people on the scene, but the IAFF already made sure that could never happen here under Illinois law.


  20. - Scott Eisenhauer is a Failure - Thursday, Nov 20, 14 @ 4:00 pm:

    Cowboy-

    “Municipal officials advocate for taxpayers”? Really? When did this start?


  21. - Madison - Thursday, Nov 20, 14 @ 4:00 pm:

    The need for arbitration is driven primarily from the no strike clauses in some public safety service agreements. Take out the no strike clause. let them strike. These departments all have assistance agreements


  22. - Anonymous - Thursday, Nov 20, 14 @ 4:05 pm:

    Fire Departments = Frats for 20 somethings to 50.


  23. - Cowboy - Thursday, Nov 20, 14 @ 4:16 pm:

    If the firefighters didn’t stand to benefit from this legislation, they wouldn’t be advocating for it. Mayors have no personal financial benefit to be realized from their position here, firefighters do.


  24. - Union Leader - Thursday, Nov 20, 14 @ 5:26 pm:

    Fire Departments = Frats for 20 somethings to 50.

    Another outrageous and ridiculous statement from a simple mind.


  25. - Cheryl44 - Thursday, Nov 20, 14 @ 5:30 pm:

    Firefighters also pay taxes, and I am guessing most of them live in the municipality in which they work.


  26. - Anon - Thursday, Nov 20, 14 @ 7:51 pm:

    “Fire Departments = Frats for 20 something’s to 50″
    Must be a cop…


  27. - One of the 35 - Thursday, Nov 20, 14 @ 9:37 pm:

    This may be the final straw for municipalities. Privatization of Fire Services may be the inevitable result.


  28. - Anonymous - Thursday, Nov 20, 14 @ 10:50 pm:

    The AFFI actually has a consolidation committee and in many cases around Chicagoland, consolidation is being explored. But don’t let the facts interfere with your narrow and uninformed opinion.


Sorry, comments for this post are now closed.


* Moody’s revises Illinois outlook from stable to positive
* Open thread
* Isabel’s morning briefing
* Live coverage
* *** UPDATED x1 - Equality Illinois 'alarmed' over possible Harris appointment *** Personal PAC warns Democratic committeepersons about Sen. Napoleon Harris
* Yesterday's stories

Support CapitolFax.com
Visit our advertisers...

...............

...............

...............

...............

...............


Loading


Main Menu
Home
Illinois
YouTube
Pundit rankings
Obama
Subscriber Content
Durbin
Burris
Blagojevich Trial
Advertising
Updated Posts
Polls

Archives
April 2024
March 2024
February 2024
January 2024
December 2023
November 2023
October 2023
September 2023
August 2023
July 2023
June 2023
May 2023
April 2023
March 2023
February 2023
January 2023
December 2022
November 2022
October 2022
September 2022
August 2022
July 2022
June 2022
May 2022
April 2022
March 2022
February 2022
January 2022
December 2021
November 2021
October 2021
September 2021
August 2021
July 2021
June 2021
May 2021
April 2021
March 2021
February 2021
January 2021
December 2020
November 2020
October 2020
September 2020
August 2020
July 2020
June 2020
May 2020
April 2020
March 2020
February 2020
January 2020
December 2019
November 2019
October 2019
September 2019
August 2019
July 2019
June 2019
May 2019
April 2019
March 2019
February 2019
January 2019
December 2018
November 2018
October 2018
September 2018
August 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
December 2006
November 2006
October 2006
September 2006
August 2006
July 2006
June 2006
May 2006
April 2006
March 2006
February 2006
January 2006
December 2005
April 2005
March 2005
February 2005
January 2005
December 2004
November 2004
October 2004

Blog*Spot Archives
November 2005
October 2005
September 2005
August 2005
July 2005
June 2005
May 2005

Syndication

RSS Feed 2.0
Comments RSS 2.0




Hosted by MCS SUBSCRIBE to Capitol Fax Advertise Here Mobile Version Contact Rich Miller