87 Comments - Juvenal - Wednesday, Jun 10, 15 @ 9:26 am: I am kind of surprised AFSCME didn’t tell folks how to request a sign in their release. Anders is slipping. - William j Kelly - Wednesday, Jun 10, 15 @ 9:28 am: I see Rauner’s, ‘get the unions to make me a national Scott walker superstar’ plan is working perfectly. - Former Merit Comp Slave - Wednesday, Jun 10, 15 @ 9:31 am: On the contrary, I think Rauner has done more to unify and galvanize the unions than anything I’ve seen in three decades - A guy - Wednesday, Jun 10, 15 @ 9:33 am: It will be interesting to see how many people put up these signs. It’ll actually help on the canvassing front and save some time. There are a lot of great state employees. I’m very fond of many of them here on the blog. I’m not sure how anxious they’d be to post a sign like this and would be interested to hear. Their issues may be misunderstood enough, that posting a sign would cause them more grief than anything else. I’d do a lot more positive PR before I’d put signs up, but hey, that’s just me. - Give Me A Break - Wednesday, Jun 10, 15 @ 9:38 am: I’ve seen the signs around Springfield for the last couple of weeks. Mostly in private yards but a few in stores. I just wonder how many of those store owners that put up signs supporting state workers also will tell you how much they believe in smaller government and no tax increases. I suspect more than a few. Reminds me of two years when I saw a home in Centralia with two signs about 10 feet apart; “Save Murray Center” and “No New Taxes”. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Jun 10, 15 @ 9:39 am: ===I’m not sure how anxious they’d be to post a sign like this… === What makes you say that? Did you see what Rauner *cough* offered *cough* - Arsenal - Wednesday, Jun 10, 15 @ 9:39 am: ==It will be interesting to see how many people put up these signs.== They’re all over the place in Springfield, as they always are in contract season. - Wordslinger - Wednesday, Jun 10, 15 @ 9:41 am: Guy, very thoughtful of you to offer your sincere, heartfelt advice. Union members and supporters, do the opposite. It’s like money. Where are they going to bus in all these outside agitators from? Russia? North Korea? They can’t be from Illinois. The people have spoken regarding the governor’s agenda. - VanillaMan - Wednesday, Jun 10, 15 @ 9:42 am: It will be interesting to see how many people put up these signs. If you are missing the thousands currently placed throughout Illinois, I’m certain someone would be more than happy to send you one in braille. - Rufus - Wednesday, Jun 10, 15 @ 9:44 am: The Union and Rauner’s group have verbally agreed to continue to negotiate in good faith at least until July 31. For state employees, nothing changes durring the month of July. - Salty - Wednesday, Jun 10, 15 @ 9:45 am: I wonder how many people with the signs in their yard voted for Rauner… - Arsenal - Wednesday, Jun 10, 15 @ 9:47 am: ==I wonder how many people with the signs in their yard voted for Rauner…== I can totally see why a state worker in November 2014 thought he or she was going to get a better deal under Rauner. Can’t quite see it now, though. - Arizona Bob - Wednesday, Jun 10, 15 @ 9:48 am: So, will state workers in AFCSME be “calling in sick” today to attend these rallies, or using their vacation time? Or is there a difference in the current contract, where employees can use them both interchangeably? I wonder how many “rent an protestor’s” wearing those purple SEIU shirts they’ll get. They’re usually good for a few hundred walkers at a short notice. My guess is that there’ll be a lot of IEA, CTU and IFT teachers walking in these things. Most are on their three month summer vacation now, and it’s not quite cruising or yachting season yet…. - Bedbug - Wednesday, Jun 10, 15 @ 9:48 am: I’m afraid if AFSCME folks deliver a simple and single “I want mine” message of pay hikes, pensions, cheap healthcare and retirement age below 67, they will play right into Rauner’s message public employee unions are anti-middle class. IMHO, AFSCME - and other public employee unions - need to develop a message where they also speak to changes in government that will help the private sector middle class as well, such as retirement security, affordable higher education, affordable health care, day care and other items that many private sector middle class voters will have a much more difficult time paying for if their income and property taxes go up to meet AFSCME’s and other public sector employee unions’ legitimate demands. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Jun 10, 15 @ 9:51 am: ===Most are on their three month summer vacation now, and it’s not quite cruising or yachting season yet….=== Really? C’mon, either argue like an adult or call it true snark. If you believe that, well, I feel bad for you. - Give Me A Break - Wednesday, Jun 10, 15 @ 9:52 am: Bob: Not sure about other areas, but Springfield is a big small town. The people I’ve seen in pics on media sites of those walking the lines are people I know from state agencies. AFSCME really does not need to “rent protesters”, at least not in Springfield. - Anonymous - Wednesday, Jun 10, 15 @ 9:55 am: Ignore him, OW. The Guv is the only ‘teacher’ I know with a yacht and nine houses! - Rufus - Wednesday, Jun 10, 15 @ 9:55 am: @Arizona Bob - Yesterday’s rallies were held durring lunch, it lasted 1/2 hour. I can attest to the fact that none of participants were “rented”. 98- 99% of state workers work hard and care very deeply about the customers they serve. The current fiscal problems of this State were not caused by these employees. They are just an easy group to blame. L - Arsenal - Wednesday, Jun 10, 15 @ 9:56 am: @ Give Me A Break- Until proven otherwise, anyone speaking against the Governor’s policies is an insincere agent provocateur bused in from parts unknown. After proven otherwise, anyone speaking against the Governor’s policies is an insincere agent provocateur bused in from parts unknown. - Deep South - Wednesday, Jun 10, 15 @ 9:56 am: ===It will be interesting to see how many people put up these signs. === There all over the place here in the Deep South (below I-64). - Secret Square - Wednesday, Jun 10, 15 @ 9:57 am: “So, will state workers in AFCSME be “calling in sick” today to attend these rallies, or using their vacation time?” Not necessarily. Most are scheduled during or close to the lunch hour; I’m guessing that those that are later in the afternoon (2 p.m., 3:15 p.m.) coincide with a shift change. - Demoralized - Wednesday, Jun 10, 15 @ 9:57 am: Bob: There are protocols for this type of thing as far as time off. The pickets are perfectly legal. Oh, and you continuing hating on teachers is disgusting. Yachting? Really? You are a piece of work Bob. - RD55 - Wednesday, Jun 10, 15 @ 9:58 am: AB. Take a look at the rally locations and ask yourself, who works in those buildings that might walk outside on THEIR lunch hour and pick up a sign and take a walk for a few minutes. Sheesh! - anon. - Wednesday, Jun 10, 15 @ 10:01 am: Let ‘em march. All it will get them is sore feet. - Nick Name - Wednesday, Jun 10, 15 @ 10:01 am: “So, will state workers in AFCSME be ‘calling in sick’ today to attend these rallies, or using their vacation time?” The rallies are during workers’ lunch hours. So, AFSCME members are giving up their lunch breaks to stand up for their rights. Next question. - Name Withheld - Wednesday, Jun 10, 15 @ 10:01 am: Oh yeah, Bob. They’re catching up on their wine club memberships too. - A guy - Wednesday, Jun 10, 15 @ 10:01 am: Nilla, I haven’t seen a single one around Dupage, north or west Cook, East Kane (where my work travels take me). Not one. Stands to reason there may be more in Springfield. One person here says a few, other says they’re everywhere. You report they’re available in Braille. If I see or feel one, I’ll let you know. Slinger, whatever dude. - Roadiepig - Wednesday, Jun 10, 15 @ 10:05 am: Willy I don’t even bother reading any missive from Bob anymore. Anything involving education gets him foaming at the mouth, and nothing he posts is reasoned or fact based. Or as you sometimes say: Don’t . Feed. Trolls. - Mouthy - Wednesday, Jun 10, 15 @ 10:07 am: - Arizona Bob - Wednesday, Jun 10, 15 @ 9:48 am: Say, you wouldn’t be related to Sheriff Joseph M. “Joe” Arpaio would you? - Wordslinger - Wednesday, Jun 10, 15 @ 10:08 am: You have to understand, AZ Bob gets most of his information from movies, like the history of the Teamsters he offered last week citing fictional characters from the flick, “Hoffa.” I’m guessing Bob got his whole “teachers and yachting season” information from “Wild Things,” in which the Matt Dillon character is a teacher who has a yacht. Cool flick, eh Bob? Giggity. - Cassandra - Wednesday, Jun 10, 15 @ 10:08 am: Yawn. They picketed Quinn too, for months. It’s all about them. And it’s all about raising taxes-the rest of it is designed to distract us. Rauner rips and roars, AFSCME rips and roars and we clueless citizens are not supposed to notice that all they both want is more of our money. Given the scant attention most of us pay to state politics, it’s probably a good strategy. Give ‘em a show for their cash. But get the cash. - Arsenal - Wednesday, Jun 10, 15 @ 10:15 am: ==They picketed Quinn too, for months. It’s all about them.== And that worked out GREAT for him… - foster brooks - Wednesday, Jun 10, 15 @ 10:16 am: I can totally see why a state worker in November 2014 thought he or she was going to get a better deal under Rauner. lol. Really? (Banned word) for those folks - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Jun 10, 15 @ 10:18 am: - Roadiepig - and - Anonymous - My apologies. To the Post, The 40% Rauner got in November, I’d be interested in those numbers now. I’d be interested, now it’s Rauner, and only Rauner (No Quinn to counter) for Union members to decide on Rauner, and how they see him helping the state, the way Rauner wants to help the state. - Snucka - Wednesday, Jun 10, 15 @ 10:20 am: =I can totally see why a state worker in November 2014 thought he or she was going to get a better deal under Rauner.= That is just remarkable to me. Wow. - Grandson of Man - Wednesday, Jun 10, 15 @ 10:21 am: I’m very pleased by the large number of green shirts I’m seein’ today, and the fruits of organization and effort. Kudos to all. Now may the weather cooperate this afternoon. - Arizona Bob - Wednesday, Jun 10, 15 @ 10:24 am: @OW =If you believe that, well, I feel bad for you.= OW, the yachting part was partially snark. For the rest of it, I have a lot of senior faculty living in my old Illinois neighborhood. While the better ones enjoy working on improving their teaching presentations, MANY just have a vacation over the summer. It’s one of the major attractions of teaching for many young teachers. If you don’t know that, I feel sorry for YOU! - Secret Square - Wednesday, Jun 10, 15 @ 10:24 am: “I can totally see why a state worker in November 2014 thought he or she was going to get a better deal under Rauner.” Or maybe, if not a “better” deal, at least a deal in which the other party (to all appearances at the time) was not likely to agree to things they could not deliver and then renege on them (like Quinn did with the contractual raises). - Snucka - Wednesday, Jun 10, 15 @ 10:27 am: This is a guy who made his millions by essentially doing the opposite of what labor unions are intended to do. He sees unions as a major problem to be not solved, but eliminated. Profits are the only thing that Rauner had to worry about as a venture capitalist, and I have not seen anything that indicates his priorities have changed. Listen to what he said — his TOP priority in crafting a budget for the state he now governs is weakening public sector labor unions. Any public employee who thought Rauner wouldn’t be so bad was willfully ignorant of his opinion on these issues. Can you imagine Pat Quinn saying that his top was to weaken unions? I can’t. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Jun 10, 15 @ 10:28 am: - Arizona Bob -, Do yourself a solid, read your comment I commented on, then your latest. Reconcile those, get back to me. ===OW, the yachting part was partially snark.=== Speaks volumes. “Partially snark”. Wow. - Snucka - Wednesday, Jun 10, 15 @ 10:28 am: =Or maybe, if not a “better” deal, at least a deal in which the other party (to all appearances at the time) was not likely to agree to things they could not deliver and then renege on them (like Quinn did with the contractual raises).= You’re right about that. Rauner is not going to promise them anything. - DHSJim - Wednesday, Jun 10, 15 @ 10:29 am: I work for DHS Call Center at 5050 N Broadway in Chicago. We’ll be rallying on our lunch break. Won’t be using any personal/sick or vacation time to do this. - Arizona Bob - Wednesday, Jun 10, 15 @ 10:39 am: @Wordslinger =You have to understand, AZ Bob gets most of his information from movies, like the history of the Teamsters he offered last week citing fictional characters from the flick, “Hoffa.” I’m guessing Bob got his whole “teachers and yachting season” information from “Wild Things,” in which the Matt Dillon character is a teacher who has a yacht. Cool flick, eh Bob? Giggity.= Never saw “Wild things”, Word, but you’re actually right about Hollywood being the source of all my information. When I had a flexible schedule, I subbed at over a dozen SW and S suburban High schools, and actually taught there instead of just babysitting. I got to see the cultures of the schools, and where the cultural problems were as well as doing comparative study. Add that to about two years full time science and math teaching at the high school levels and teaching about a dozen math and science college courses, as well as having done numerous cost and academic benchmarking studies for my local schools, and FOIAed and commented on numerous school budgets and contract proposals, and it sure must have been a good movie on which I base my comments. Which ones was it, “Bad Teacher”, “Blackboard Jungle” or one of those other celluloid showcases? I’m also glad that you’ve straightened me out on the fact that there’s never been any mob influence in unions. That’s what my friend Tony “No Nose” Pastafagiole has been telling me for years, as well as the fact that there is no “MAFIA”, it only came from anti-Italian movies. He tells me that “This Thing of Ours (La Cosa Nostra)” refers to a special Marinara sauce recipe. Thanks for educating me, Word. Now can I tell you where I suggest you “sling” your words? - DHSJim - Wednesday, Jun 10, 15 @ 10:45 am: …and to reiterate what I said at a Town Hall meeting hosted by Senator Harmon and Representative Lillie, State workers help people, and it could get tricky. We deserve to get paid a middle class salary, have adequate health care and have job security. Rauner is trying to undermine all 3 of these by freezing raises for the next 3 years, reducing our health care to bronze ACA level and worst of all remove all restrictions on privatization. This is unacceptable and we’re not going to take it. - AnonymousOne - Wednesday, Jun 10, 15 @ 10:46 am: People like AZ Bob love to brag and boast about their intelligence and educational level. But there is a disconnect about how that evolved in them. I sure do hope he didn’t send his kids to school. Doesn’t he know that by sending them to a school he was feeding the pockets of those greedy teachers and helping them to buy their yachts? Surely, they were home schooled by only the best home schoolers and have no degrees that got them jobs………….did it all by themselves!!! - Arizona Bob - Wednesday, Jun 10, 15 @ 10:48 am: To the rest of you making the comments about marchers being on their lunch hours or at shift changes, I think you made your points. the timing is right for AFCSME workers going out in support of their unions on their own time. I guess I’ve been jaded since I’ve seen so many “rent a protestor” events in Chicago and Springfield. Fro the poster that asked if I’m related to Sherriff Joe, the answer is no, but he lives abut a mile away from me in Fountain Hills, AZ. I WISH I was related to him. You know where he stands, and he’s got brass “oysters”, and he believes in fairness and justice, and he knows more about the issues than virtually anyone I’ve heard in the media. At 80, the guy’s a force of nature. - Arsenal - Wednesday, Jun 10, 15 @ 10:51 am: ==That is just remarkable to me. Wow.== Well, I don’t like it, but Quinn had a pretty testy relationship with the unions, and Rauner pretty successfully hid his true agenda. And given the history of IL Republican governors, I see why no one assumed he’d be so anti-state worker. I certainly didn’t think he would be. - Arizona Bob - Wednesday, Jun 10, 15 @ 10:57 am: @anonymousone. Nope, I sent my kids to the local public schools where I fought like the dickens to improve the quality of education and cost effectiveness to help ALL the kids in my community, not just my kids. There were tremendous obstacles, largely created by unions and the school political bureaucracies to overcome, and I learned a lot about the problems, their root causes and what needed to be done to fix them from that experience. I found that senior faculty basically came into two groups after about 10 years experience; those which love teaching and the students and would teach without making higher rates than lawyers after 20 years, and those who are teaching long term because they’d be virtually unemployable in any other field. I’ve found that the Illinois union culture has created far more of the latter than the former teachers. That’s one reason I believe the less power Illinois public unions have, the better fro the students and the state. - Very Fed Up - Wednesday, Jun 10, 15 @ 11:13 am: AFSCME is going to realize the reality with the supreme court ruling on pensions. All of us will lose. Taxpayers will pay more, taxpayers will receive less services and contract negotiations are going to be brutal. Sooner politicians and powers at be come to grips with all 3 facts the sooner we can move forward. - Mama - Wednesday, Jun 10, 15 @ 11:20 am: ++“We Support State Workers” have been distributed across Illinois in recent weeks++ Where can I get a sign? I’d be happy to put a sign in my yard to support the state workers. I know businesses would gladly do the same to support the clients that supports them. - Mama - Wednesday, Jun 10, 15 @ 11:21 am: Once the guv shuts the state down, people will find out real quick how much they need state workers. The public does not have a clue. - Demoralized - Wednesday, Jun 10, 15 @ 11:24 am: Bob: What is the ideal wage for a teacher in your opinion? You seem to constantly rail on teacher salaries so you must have some idea of what you think they are worth. Also, Bob, thanks once again for reminding us all how smart you are. We had all forgotten for a second that you are God’s gift to information. - DHSJim - Wednesday, Jun 10, 15 @ 11:25 am: Very Fed Up, not true. Stop reading Tribune editorials. Illinois is not broke. Need a graduated income tax and tax more services. - Mouthy - Wednesday, Jun 10, 15 @ 11:34 am: - Arizona BobNow - Wednesday, Jun 10, 15 @ 10:39 am: “can I tell you where I suggest you “sling” your words?” Yup, I knew you were related… - Anonymous - Wednesday, Jun 10, 15 @ 12:05 pm: I just looked up 3 recently retired superintendents’ pensions. all were under 65 and the combined annual pension is 288,000 per year. I also looked up 4 relatives who recently retired from teaching. Only one is over 65 and they have a combined pension of 230,000. I don’t know if this includes benefits. Is it sustainable? - Juice - Wednesday, Jun 10, 15 @ 12:41 pm: Anonymous, what’s your point? The court already ruled so we are where we are. - Bedbug - Wednesday, Jun 10, 15 @ 12:44 pm: DHSJim: “Need a graduated income tax and tax more services.” How do you sell these tax hikes to the private sector middle class that can’t retire until they are 67 and are on their own for retirement security, education and healthcare (while working and in retirement)? If anything, it seems like any new revenue should go solely into a pension fund rather than for pay hikes and benefit increases. There is a real angst across Illinois amongst the middle class working in the private sector over the cost of government and public education, the creeping up of property taxes over the last 25 years and how that will impact their lifestyle, retirement and their childrens’ future. This group was not represented at all at the Senate’s Committee of the Whole yesterday. What are public sector employees doing to lessen the private sector middle class’s real day-today and retirement expenses? - Honeybear - Wednesday, Jun 10, 15 @ 12:50 pm: AB. Rally was at break time and then picks up at a restaurant/bar tonight! Solidarity! - AnonymousOne - Wednesday, Jun 10, 15 @ 12:54 pm: Teachers contribute almost 10% of their income to their one and only retirement plan. No choice there. No social security. If you are employed in the private sector, you have your social security as a supplement, which is how it was intended to work and if you’re saving 10% each year, you’ll have retirement savings, provided you don’t start saving at age 55 in a panic. The people I know in the private sector skip the savings part and drive BMWs and have all kinds of goodies but now complain about not having money for retirement. Don’t understand why these people don’t understand why the money isn’t there? - Grandson of Man - Wednesday, Jun 10, 15 @ 12:58 pm: I am most happy to report that our rally has so far been a smashing success. We are getting much support from drivers honking and pedestrians. - Clodhopper - Wednesday, Jun 10, 15 @ 1:04 pm: My comment is very simple but feel the need to post. State employees as well as union employees are taxpayers also. - Anonymous - Wednesday, Jun 10, 15 @ 1:17 pm: I just walked through the protest in South Loop, on my way to lunch with my girlfriend. The protesters were crowding the limited sidewalk space. An organizer tried to hand us signs for the protest. When we declined, a protester in stated, ” They must be billionaires”. That is a great way to win people over to your POV. - anon - Wednesday, Jun 10, 15 @ 1:24 pm: @ Cassandra. Yawn. No, really, it’s all about you. And it’s all about demanding free services-the rest of it is designed to distract us. The Civic Committee rips and roars, the Tribune rips and roars and we clueless government workers are not supposed to notice that all they both want is more of our services without paying. Given the scant attention most of us pay to state politics, it’s probably a good strategy. Give ‘em a show for their free services. But get the free services. Sorry, Cassandra, there is no Santa Claus. - Wordslinger - Wednesday, Jun 10, 15 @ 1:37 pm: – I just walked past AFSCME protest in South Loop– Where in South Loop? - Grandson of Man - Wednesday, Jun 10, 15 @ 2:16 pm: There was tremendous solidarity at our rally among the workers. Also, not one person booed us or did something to show opposition. Many folks beeped and did gestures of support. It’s clear from my standpoint that workers are not going to stand there and take a few super-rich union haters trying to rip away their collective voices and job security. What happens in the future is of course unknown, but I could not be happier with today’s showing. - onevoter - Wednesday, Jun 10, 15 @ 2:22 pm: My AFSCME brethen asked me to inform all that members also rallied at CHICAGO Human Services @ 401 S. Clinton and @ Il. State Police @ 1941 W. Roosevelt Chicago . - Arizona Bob - Wednesday, Jun 10, 15 @ 3:05 pm: @anonymous one =Don’t understand why these people don’t understand why the money isn’t there?= its because the rate of return for teachers in what they contribute against what they receive is astronomically different in favor of the teachers, anon. The max you can get out of Social Security for retirement is about $27K per year for your 6.4% contributions, as matched by your employer. Teachers “employers” only kick in a little over 1%, so the difference in employer contributions results in about 5% higher compensation for the employees in the public system. Proportionately, that would mean for teachers contributing their 9.4% for 50 years they’d max out at about $40K per year, but there’s more. Social Security is based upon lifetime contributions while the TRS is only based upon the last four years, therefore “spiking” can raise pension expenses by as much as 16% without penalty. While it’s tough to get good data on annual new payouts for TRS pensions, the latest numbers I’ve heard is that the average TRS pension given out over the last few years for fully vested employees is about $70K. If you want to adjust pension ROIs to those provided by Social security based on contributions, our pension liabilities in Illinois would practically disappear. Of course no matter how low the state pension contributions get, you could bet the GA would underfund it to divert resources to spending with better political payback…. - DHSJim - Wednesday, Jun 10, 15 @ 3:12 pm: @Bedbug, not sure. What I know is that State government spending has been decreased from 54 billion back in 2001 to the proposed 32 billion. We can’t cut any more without severely limiting services. I think a graduated tax would need to keep middle class tax burden in mind. But we currently pay less in taxes than most states. And a graduated tax would be far less regressive than current flat rate. - Arizona Bob - Wednesday, Jun 10, 15 @ 3:12 pm: BTW, for those of you frothing over my “yacht” comments, I know quite a few teachers who rent a yacht for a few days with friends down in Florida, and as a group it’s expensive, but overall pretty affordable. A couple of 45 year old teachers pulling down $240K per 178 days in my kids old school district could easily afford it, if they’re up to date on their Bentley payments…. Oooops, I did it again, didn’t I?LOL - RD55 - Wednesday, Jun 10, 15 @ 3:24 pm: Bob why don’t you provide names? Teacher’s salaries are available to the public. You got any #s for the average teacher in that district? I love how you always point out people on the high end of the bell curve. - Arizona Bob - Wednesday, Jun 10, 15 @ 3:24 pm: @Dem, the median salary in the Chicago area for an engineer working about 244 days per year is about $79K per year, or about $56K per year to be comparable to a 178 day teacher work year. to make more than that as an engineer, you need to be a supervisor or manger, or be specialist with such good skills you can bill out at a much higher rate. $50K to $60K as a peak for an average teacher seems about right, unless the teacher teaches over the summer or has extra curricular assignments. that’s about the average in Illinois, but the problem is that the 5-7 year experience teachers are often underpaid while the senior faculty are often grossly overpaid. that’s a by-product of the union system by which senior faculty usually call the shots. In a fair world, younger teachers would be able to negotiate on their behalf, and the seniors negotiate on theirs. The have conflicting demands on the money, and this inequality for teachers doing the same work is a major factor in teachers leaving the profession. The solution is to have extended school years to increase teacher income fairly and give the kids the contact hours they need to be competitive in the global economy. this necessary natural progression in the US was killed by the union system in public education. The necessary reforms will never happen as long as the unions control the school priorities through their striking powers. - Arizona Bob - Wednesday, Jun 10, 15 @ 3:28 pm: RD55, it’s district 230 in Orland Park. You can look up averages at the state website, www.isbe.net. If you want to see the teachers’ contract, you can find it a www.d230.org. Enjoy! - Former Merit Comp Slave - Wednesday, Jun 10, 15 @ 3:32 pm: Great article in Springfield paper this afternoon on the rallies - Name Withheld - Wednesday, Jun 10, 15 @ 3:34 pm: From d230.org === All three District 230 high schools are among America’s Top High Schools according to a The Daily Beast report. The recognition considers graduation and college-acceptance rates as well as college-level courses and exams, percentage of students with free or reduced lunch, SAT and ACT scores. === Oh yeah, sounds like you’ve got a bunch of slacker overpaid teachers there. They are clearly not teaching up to standards. Why, I’ll bet the students are succeeding in spite of the teachers, not because of them. - Demoralized - Wednesday, Jun 10, 15 @ 3:35 pm: Bob: Why are you using an engineer’s salary to get a benchmark for a teacher’s salary? I’m guessing it’s simply because that’s the experience you have to it’s easiest for you to use that??? Again, that’s a serious, non-snarky question and I thank you for answering my previous one. - Skeptic - Wednesday, Jun 10, 15 @ 3:41 pm: ABob: According to a document on that very link you provided, the highest scheduled salary in 2014-2015 was $139,241. Where do you get that $200K+? - Skeptic - Wednesday, Jun 10, 15 @ 3:48 pm: And http://d230.org/file.aspx?DocumentId=577 Page 43, top salary $121,262. Hardly a King’s ransom, especially in Orland Park. - Rusty618 - Wednesday, Jun 10, 15 @ 3:50 pm: ==I wonder how many people with the signs in their yard voted for Rauner…== I have one in my yard and I didn’t vote for Rauner…or Quinn! - anon - Wednesday, Jun 10, 15 @ 3:53 pm: Seems to me that an engineer and a teacher have similar basis job requirements (a bachelor’s degree, perhaps some professional certification?) and yet you are arguing that it is wrong for teachers to receive comparable pay? Because one is a male-dominated field and the other is female? - Louis Howe - Wednesday, Jun 10, 15 @ 4:39 pm: Private sector unions are at 6.6% of the workforce, a 100 year low. I am convinced that public sector unions will not be able to maintain fair wages and benefits for themselves until private sector unionization turns around. That’s where the effort needs to be placed. There isn’t much voter support for maintaining public unions when the private sector workforce doesn’t share public sector benefits. Here’s an interesting example from today’s BLS Employee Compensation report that has long term consequences. Today, less than 2% of private sector employee compensation is paid into a defined benefit retirement plan and about the 2% goes to a defined contribution plan. In the public sector over 9% is paid into defined benefit plans and less than 2% into defined contribution plans. What that means is that current public sector employees should have decent retirements, while many private sector employees will be working at Wal-Mart into their 80s. In today’s stagnant income and wealth environment emphasizing public sector unions is a loser. Democrats need to change the rules and organize the private sector. It’s the only way to save public sector employees long-term. - AnonymousOne - Wednesday, Jun 10, 15 @ 4:50 pm: Why does every conversation always devolve into picking on teachers? So much adolescent resentment of authority figures that never got resolved apparently. Some on this blog seem to have a true neuroses about it. - AnonymousOne - Wednesday, Jun 10, 15 @ 5:05 pm: Bob Social Security was never, ever intended to be the entirety of retirement income for anyone. It was intended as a supplement to a company pension plan, 401K or other retirement savings for retirement. A teacher has only one organized plan for retirement and that is their pension. With company matches to 401K contributions, profit sharing and other personal investments, private employees have a variety of methods to fund their retirement. But no one ever intended to have them survive on social security as it, admittedly is a significantly lower portion compared to a pension. So when I said retirees don’t understand why the money isn’t there I meant that they blew it on everything but their own retirement investments, foolishly —– and are now whining about how little they have to live on in retirement on their SS. No one’s problem but their own. Don’t blame anyone but yourself while you spent your younger working years on your yacht instead of saving for your own future. - Mama - Wednesday, Jun 10, 15 @ 8:14 pm: ++ What are public sector employees doing to lessen the private sector middle class’s real day-today and retirement expenses? ++ You have got to be joking! Your statement makes no sense. - Jorge - Wednesday, Jun 10, 15 @ 9:15 pm: “The have conflicting demands on the money, and this inequality for teachers doing the same work is a major factor in teachers leaving the profession.” Bob, having to deal with parents like you would drive most teachers out of the profession. - Arthur Andersen - Wednesday, Jun 10, 15 @ 10:03 pm: Bob, you throw more baloney than a deli at lunchtime. First, it’s hardly “tough to get good data” to get teacher pension information. TRS maintains an excellent website, if you know how to use it, as does ISBE. Going to the Google, there are a myriad of privately maintained teacher and retiree pay databases, of varying currency and accuracy. Caveat Emptor. Having done my homework before I came to school, let me school you a bit. 1) the average TRS pension for all retirees is $4274/month. That’s slightly over $51k per year. 2) the average monthly benefit for new retirees entering TRS is $4,070 or $49,800. A far cry from $70k. This amount has decreased for three consecutive years and is the exact same average rate from FY2004, meaning your endless comments about spiking are just more baloney. PS: the average age at retirement was 61, with 29 years of service. The largest cohort (30%) had over 35 years of service. 3) the average salary for active TRS members is $68,556. Allowing for the decreasing size of the active member population, this figure also appears to be unchanged over the last four years. The average active member is 42 and has been teaching for 13 years. As for $240k classroom teachers, I don’t buy it. Name the district and I’ll check it out. If I’m wrong, I’ll say so right here. Finally, I posted several months ago the results of a calculation which showed that if a teacher had received a State match equal to his/her contributions over their career, earned the TRS historical returns, and annuitized the sum, the balance was sufficient to pay the earned pension plus AAI to age 85. Back up your flame with facts or just go away. Please. - Arthur Andersen - Wednesday, Jun 10, 15 @ 10:08 pm: Addendum: all data as of 06/30/14. Source: TRS CAFR. Strike that about the school district, Bob. I see the Baloney whistle has already been blown on that one. - Arizona Bob - Thursday, Jun 11, 15 @ 7:56 am: @Dem =Bob: Why are you using an engineer’s salary to get a benchmark for a teacher’s salary? I’m guessing it’s simply because that’s the experience you have to it’s easiest for you to use that??? Again, that’s a serious, non-snarky question and I thank you for answering my previous one.= I used the comparison for two reasons; one is that I’ve worked in both professions so I have a basis for comparison, and even though few teachers have the academic qualifications to get into engineering school, both are professions that can well be performed with only a bachelors degree. Sorry, comments for this post are now closed.