32 Comments - Robert the Bruce - Friday, Nov 13, 15 @ 10:20 am: ==since all the tax hike money is already spoken for, services aren’t going to improve much. == Yeah - that’s the big challenge. Raising property taxes without increasing funds for education will be a difficult sell. - Abe the Babe - Friday, Nov 13, 15 @ 10:30 am: ==all the tax hike money is already spoken for, services aren’t going to improve much.== Ditto for the State - Anonymous - Friday, Nov 13, 15 @ 10:33 am: People need to understand that they did receive improved services for their tax dollars. Unfortunately for residents of Chicago, those services were performed years ago while Daley shorted the pension funds. Now its time to pay the piper. - nixit71 - Friday, Nov 13, 15 @ 10:34 am: Gotta pay for those “Daley Days” somehow. - From the 'Dale to HP - Friday, Nov 13, 15 @ 10:34 am: ==Also, if Chicagoans are gonna pay higher taxes, they’re probably gonna demand much better services. And since all the tax hike money is already spoken for, services aren’t going to improve much.== And it’s not even enough money to pay the bills. So Rahm’s going to have to ask for even more money… BTW, Rahm needs Rauner to sign SB777 in the worst way, so I wouldn’t rule anything out. - Bogey Golfer - Friday, Nov 13, 15 @ 10:36 am: Just a reminder, these are tax RATES, not actual dollars. Also, I do not believe Chicago residents and businesses do not get a separate water bill - it’s just added to their property taxes. The city v. suburb argument is not a true comparison. - Anonymous - Friday, Nov 13, 15 @ 10:37 am: === Also, I do not believe Chicago residents and businesses do not get a separate water bill - it’s just added to their property taxes === Chicago residents do get separate water bills. Those are particularly high unless you signed up for the water meter. - nixit71 - Friday, Nov 13, 15 @ 10:43 am: ==Raising property taxes without increasing funds for education will be a difficult sell.== CPS already gets $1B from the Feds and an extra $500M over their fair share in state funding based on block grants and such. And all the while, total CPS enrollment is down 10% since 2002. Which raises the question, when will enough be enough? - From the 'Dale to HP - Friday, Nov 13, 15 @ 10:45 am: CPS gets ~$900m from the Feds, and about $250m extra via the block grants. - Almost the Weekend - Friday, Nov 13, 15 @ 10:53 am: It’s great that younger people are moving to Chicago, but the same cycle is repeating. Once younger people start a family they move out of the city, moving to the suburbs for better schools. Suburbanites complain about high property taxes all the time, but their public schools are best in the state and in some areas best public schools in the country. You can’t have it both ways in Illinois. My point is there is no emphasis to improve CPS until middle class and upper middle class families decide to raise their families in Chicago. That is the only way there will be meaningful change to CPS. This is very similar to the changing perspective on drug abuse. Once it starts hitting middle class families will people want change (DuPage County). If people disagree with me, look at GOP POTUS candidates bring up heroin and prescription abuse amongst family members. - Weltschmerz - Friday, Nov 13, 15 @ 10:58 am: “Daley Days” were only for Daley’s Dems. A nice example is his private road downtown. - JS Mill - Friday, Nov 13, 15 @ 11:06 am: An analysis by the GOP a year or two ago (if anyone has a link, I cannot find it), using actual ISBE budget dollars, demonstrated that CPS actually receives a disproportionate share of state even when considering poverty, special needs, and English language learners. Chicago also has the unique ability to levy a tax to pay it’s share of the retirement costs for teachers. Where has THAT money been going? The pension should not be an issue at CPS but boy are they ever silent on the levy part. I have great empathy for kids and do not want to vulture money from other schools, but as Nixit71 stated “when will enough be enough?” - truthteller - Friday, Nov 13, 15 @ 11:08 am: These comparisons of City versus County are too generic to be meaningful. Which Suburb hits a townhome owner with $75 for water and sewer every month, adds $4.50 per mobile phone and land line, adds tax to cable, gas, electric, charges for an automobile sticker and forces guests to pay for daily parking stickers? The Mayor spent his first four years raising hundreds of millions out of city resident pockets through fines and fees. Now he is taking a more direct route and the justification is hey your property tax bills would be higher in the ‘burbs. Well, in the ‘burbs I would have much superior fire and police protection, would have far superior road infrastructure, neighborhood parks, athletic fields, etc. and I would have a good high school to send my child which would save me over $25,000 a year in private school tuition. When the City can match the family resources of the suburbs I will happily pay in overall annual taxes and fees whatever a comparable home owner is paying in Hinsdale, Naperville, etc. But until then spare me the insipid “comparisons” and arguments about lower tax rates. - Very Fed Up - Friday, Nov 13, 15 @ 11:17 am: This seems to be the method of thinking in cook county and Chicago. Rather than compare to other states nationally the argument property taxes arent as high in some parts of cook county as others. Just raising property taxes to pour into public employee pensions without any increased services is a hard sell when the pensions are unavailable to most of the taxpayers. - nixit71 - Friday, Nov 13, 15 @ 11:23 am: @JS Mill - Here’s the link… http://senategop.state.il.us/Portals/0/Docs/Cost-Shift-FINAL.pdf?timestamp=1409174250732 - Trydge - Friday, Nov 13, 15 @ 11:23 am: Good overview graphic here: https://d2dv7hze646xr.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Screen-Shot-2015-10-26-at-7.15.26-AM.png - Leading InDecatur - Friday, Nov 13, 15 @ 11:36 am: Very Fed Up- The pensions are available for anyone willing to work for them. Few people are willing to work with adolescents in city schools. Those willing to do what most people cannot do or will not do deserve to be appropriately compensated. These jobs exist not only in public service and education, but in other challenging career areas in the private sector and are likewise compensated. - Anonymous - Friday, Nov 13, 15 @ 11:39 am: === Which Suburb hits a townhome owner with $75 for water and sewer every month, adds $4.50 per mobile phone and land line, adds tax to cable, gas, electric, charges for an automobile sticker and forces guests to pay for daily parking stickers? The Mayor spent his first four years raising hundreds of millions out of city resident pockets through fines and fees. Now he is taking a more direct route and the justification is hey your property tax bills would be higher in the ‘burbs. Well, in the ‘burbs I would have much superior fire and police protection, would have far superior road infrastructure, neighborhood parks, athletic fields, etc. and I would have a good high school to send my child which would save me over $25,000 a year in private school tuition. === For a single family home, my water and sewer charges are approximately $40 every two months, or $20 per month. Guests do not pay for parking passes - homeowners do and that is because the residents of that particular neighborhood wanted zone parking to deal with parking issues. I don’t think that the suburbs can argue that their police or fire services are superior. I would argue that, from my experiences, it is the opposite. The issue for them is that there is a much higher demand for those services in the City. In terms of schools, many parochial high schools have tuition around $10k a year - far less than the $25k you quoted. Generally I agree with you that the suburbs get superior services to that of the City. With that said, I think your examples of the cost of living in the City are much exaggerated. At the end of the day, in addition to the schools, families are driven to the suburbs as a result of the allure of bigger homes and more living space. - Arizona Bob - Friday, Nov 13, 15 @ 11:50 am: Stop complaining, you Chicagoans. For all your tax dollars you support a Chicago Dem machine that’s INCREDIBLY generous to it’s payrollers, particularly those politically connected, with salaries, benefits, OT, comp time, and, of course, PENSIONS. You also are supporting a massive “TIF” system that diverts tax dollars from schools, roads, police and fire to reward Dem machine developers, lawyers and contractors. Your tax dollars have served to maintain Dem power for generations now. How can little things like lousy education for the masses, massive potholes, deadly streets that the city won’t police enough to make safe, and decaying infrastructure compare to that? (snark?) - Ahoy! - Friday, Nov 13, 15 @ 11:54 am: It seems like governments all across Illinois including the State have to pass tax increases to either pay for pensions or pay for other items like infrastructure because all the money is already going towards pensions. Good thing we don’t have a spending or pension problem right? - Formerly Known As... - Friday, Nov 13, 15 @ 12:21 pm: A state income tax increase should be warmly received after the city, county and property tax increases. /s - truthteller - Friday, Nov 13, 15 @ 12:29 pm: –Anon at 11:39 Those are my charges, and there is no exaggeration. There is no private HS for $10,000 or less in the three miles from my home, but say there was, that just proves the point. In the ‘burbs I don’t pay that $10k per year, with CPS in many neighborhoods I have no choice, thus the comparison of the tax rate doesn’t work. - Last Bull Moose - Friday, Nov 13, 15 @ 12:47 pm: A few years ago I checked and Chicago spent more per public school student than Naperville. Chicago had one police person per 210 people, Naperville one per 750. Money alone is not driving the difference. - Blue dog dem - Friday, Nov 13, 15 @ 12:51 pm: As my children would say,……”OMG” - 32nd Ward Roscoe Village - Friday, Nov 13, 15 @ 12:53 pm: I do get a separate water bill and it is higher with a meter than when I did not have a meter. - Steve - Friday, Nov 13, 15 @ 12:58 pm: Winnetka property taxes for Chicago Public Schools. A great deal that no one can argue against! - 47th Ward - Friday, Nov 13, 15 @ 1:02 pm: I certainly don’t feel under-taxed in Chicago. Far from it. - Team Sleep - Friday, Nov 13, 15 @ 1:46 pm: To me, sales taxes are almost a red herring. Every major metro area in the state has a rate higher than the state’s base rate and most cities have TIF areas with even higher percentages than the extended city rate. I know some people dislike sales taxes and call them regressive, but given the sheer power of the mayors and IML there is no way sales tax reform in any way will come down the pike any time soon. - South Sider - Friday, Nov 13, 15 @ 2:14 pm: === I certainly don’t feel under-taxed in Chicago. Far from it. === Maybe you should consider moving out of the 47th Ward and come down south! - nixit71 - Friday, Nov 13, 15 @ 2:45 pm: ==I certainly don’t feel under-taxed in Chicago. Far from it.== The fact that you’re handle is “47th Ward” is a good indicator of how much administrative bloat there is in Chicago. Chicago has lost 1 million residents since 1950, yet maintains the same number of wards since then (50). Removing 10 wards would get Chicago back to 1940s representation ratios. I would wager you could easily get rid of 10 more. LA has 1 million more residents and gets by on only 15 districts. NY has 51 Council members but over 3 times the population of Chicago. Both seem to get by just fine on less representation per capita. - Hit or Miss - Friday, Nov 13, 15 @ 3:50 pm: ===Raising property taxes without increasing funds for education will be a difficult sell.=== Keep in mind that CPS spends more for instruction per pupil per year than the state average by over $2300 per student ($9778 for District 299 vs the state average of $7419). Operational spending by CPS is $2600 per pupil per year above the state average ($15,120 for District 299 vs the state average of $12,521). See https://illinoisreportcard.com/District.aspx?source=Environment&source2=PerStudentSpending&Districtid=15016299025 CPS needs the additional property tax revenue to pay for the unfunded pension plan for CPS workers. This is another way of saying a portion of past work performed but not paid for in the past now needs to be paid. In Illinois schools there is no statistical correlation between expenditure and results (aka outcomes). Chicago is a clear example of this. - Rod - Friday, Nov 13, 15 @ 3:57 pm: In the 34 years we have owned our single family home in Chicago’s Andersonville community our market value has risen from $74,000 to now about $800,000 inclusive of about $150,000 in upgrades all done with appropriate permits. Our current property taxes are about $9,900 a year. They were about $2,900 a year 34 years ago. Of course we have had a good deal and so have many other Chicagoans living in high income areas of the city. There is nothing new in the Tribune article at all. Chicago is a world class city and even with repeated property tax increases it will remain one of the best deals for major cities in the world. If you don’t think so look at NYC, San Francisco, Singapore or Hong Kong property values per square foot. Sorry, comments for this post are now closed.