41 Comments - ZC - Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 9:46 am: And to take it even one step further: the judiciary in the state of Illinois has been remarkably complacent here, too. There seems to be (for those who favor the “plain-talking Constitution” approach) a remarkably blunt sentence concerning the responsibility of the state to be the “primary” funder of public education. The Courts have apparently allowed “primary” to devolve to “whatever amount the state of IL feels like spending,” which I kind of doubt was the original intent. And then finally we the people of course are at fault. For all people’s complaints about property taxes, they know that means at least the money stays local and doesn’t go to educate “undeserving poor” somewhere else in Illinois. - wordslinger - Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 9:49 am: Very well put. I’d add that, in the suburbs, people’s home values are directly tied to the perception of the qualities of the schools. Ask any Realtor. If the value of your home starts to take a hit due to rolling back school funding, people start to howl. - Anon221 - Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 9:51 am: I was hoping you would post this today. I ran across his column on this morning’s news searches. The two-year freeze proposal does nothing but create more chaos in the state as locals begin the debate of whether or not to trigger their maximums on taxes in order to cover what the state would not be providing. Rauner’s ploys of “starvation” to show what you can live without only will only result in a weaker not stronger State. His obsession with “growth” forgets that to grow there needs to be “seeds, lands, hands, and planning” not just a heaping load of fertilizer. All that does is burn the young plants and run-off to further pollute the “waters”. - Norseman - Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 9:52 am: Pandering is the best way to get elected. Not a good way to govern as we’ve found out so so many times. - Norseman - Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 9:54 am: === … what issues they would collectively bargain (an issue where legal scholars disagree) … === I hate teasers. Would love for this point to be expanded upon. - GA Watcher - Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 9:58 am: Mr. Kadner will be missed. A few columnists have tried to be Chicago media’s next Mike Royko, but they have been merely pretenders. Phil Kadner is the real deal. - wordslinger - Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 9:59 am: Anon221, there have been plenty of reports already of local governments taking steps to max property tax rates in anticipation of a possible freeze. - Anon221 - Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 10:03 am: Word- That is what I was referring to. I guess I shouldn’t have used the word “begin”. However, in some of the communities that supported the TurnAround, they have been acting as if they are surprised at this “reform” move by Rauner. Handwringing is happening in my area, and they supported the “reforms” with their blinders firmly in place as to the possible consequences. - ottawa otter - Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 10:05 am: Norseman, you have identified the root of the problem. I am nominating the Panda as the State animal. From what I can tell, it will get massive support on both sides of the isle. The spineless weasel fish for State fish. - Diogenes in DuPage - Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 10:06 am: Another clear example of why Phil Kadner’s analysis and writing will be sorely missed…. - Beaner - Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 10:07 am: Higher taxes on the existing Casinos to fund the Common School fund would help out Property Tax payers than another LOCAL MANDATE by politicians in Springfield. A Mandated freeze on their main revenue source by a far away government run by lobbyists? This Governor needs to manage the State, not dictate and micro-manage local revenue. First Governor, take care of the State of Illinois revenue problem and get a budget. Heard no talk of how these Turnaround items are going to cut cost or raise revenue to balance the budget in the next year, or two…or three. Could we have some numbers please? - Formerly Known As... - Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 10:10 am: ==School districts do approve pay raises for teachers and that represents a big chunk of their spending.== If the state pays for more of the salaries, shouldn’t the state also have more say in setting those salaries? ==Other people’s money?== - Honeybear - Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 10:11 am: Great article and well said ZC. Heaven forbid we should give a crap about the impoverished children of East St. Louis. We had some visit our office in the Spring. They were bright, eager, and well behaved. They especially loved that we teamed up with the ESL Fire Dept. They lost it over the “jaws of life”. You’d like to never see elementary school kids get more excited. But I for one am glad I don’t have to think about them. I just want lower property taxes! s/ - ANON - Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 10:11 am: “to adequately fund public education” and just what is adequate? Chicago politicians and the teachers want more, but taxpayers are tapped out. Perhaps adequate is LESS than current levels. - budget please - Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 10:23 am: ANSWER PLEASE, Can the house pass the HB4305 bill without senate ( effective immediately). Do anyone know the answer. - JS Mill - Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 10:33 am: =“to adequately fund public education” and just what is adequate? Chicago politicians and the teachers want more, but taxpayers are tapped out. Perhaps adequate is LESS than current levels.= I get the “tapped out” part to an extent but, show your work here. Show the class your “adequacy” formula or the information you are basing your decision on. Don’t tell me what they are spending, provide evidence to support your position on what is needed. - Team Sleep - Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 10:34 am: Meeks’s plan from a few years ago is my preference - but only if it is codified via a constitutional amendment. I don’t trust the GA to keep things as they’re supposed to be. But property taxes are real - and they are political. School boards are political entities. So are city councils and county boards. To act as though we can take politics out of property tax bills and usage is silly. And it’s easy to scream “IT’S FOR THE KIDS!” when money is needed. After all, some people just assume more money will either cure all the ills or, at the very least, be a calming salve. Honeybear, as much as I agree that we need to care about E StL schools, I’m of the mindset that perhaps the state needs to take over the school system. Given how that town and school district have been run for the last 30-40+ years, nothing tells me that anyone locally can make enough of a difference to get it back on track to being financially viable AND take care of the kids from pre-k through high school. - X-prof - Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 10:35 am: This article repeats two canards regarding the state’s fiscal problems. 1) The state lacks the money to fix it’s problems. IL has above average per capita income; it **does** have the money to fix its problems. But state and local government lack the funds due to dysfunctional revenue policies. 2) The problems facing the state are insurmountable — simply not true, but I agree it remains to be seen whether the philosophical differences, in no small part a result of an ill-informed electorate, can be overcome. Change the mix of income, sales and property taxes to fix the revenue problem. Increase the first sharply, and decrease the other two to protect middle and low-income tax payers. Provide the state enough revenue to properly fund public education. This would allow cuts, not just a freeze, in property taxes. Short of a constitutional amendment, increasing the role of income tax is the only way to tap a fair share of the income going to the top 10% (about 1/2 of total personal income). IL is currently a tax haven, in terms of total state and local tax rate, for these folks. Combine this with other ideas (close loopholes in corporate taxes, tax retirement income, etc.) and the revenue problem can be fixed. I don’t know whether this revenue reform could get past an expected veto, but it would benefit the majority of IL voters. I wish our politicians and the press would at least discuss it. - VanillaMan - Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 10:37 am: Boomers are retiring and moving out of my neighborhood because they don’t like paying our high school taxes now that they no longer have any kids in school. To them, paying school taxes is a bad value, now that they no longer use schools. A house nearby went on sale last Monday, and it was sold Tuesday. Reason - the local school. Our school district adds 25% additional value to our real estate. Yet, Boomers want to cash out and move to senior living neighborhoods without schools, but close to hospitals. Consumerism has corrupted citizenship to such an extent that we don’t want to help others if it isn’t a bargain. Citizenship is an investment, not a bargain. At what point can we turn this mentality around? - JS Mill - Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 10:41 am: Kadner nails it, spot on. Over the last 7 years schools have shed thousands of jobs and passed on filling vacant positions. Not everywhere, there are districts in excellent financial shape that have not sacrificed one single dime. nOt because of fiscal wizardry but based on where they are and what they generate in local revenue. Although seemingly counter intuitive, some very poor communities have schools that are doing very well financially because of high poverty, ESL, Special Ed, and low property values. The state funding formula has some very interesting idiosyncrasies that push funding in some hard to understand ways. =If the state pays for more of the salaries, shouldn’t the state also have more say in setting those salaries?= Current data- Illinois provides approx 26% of school funding even though our constitution says it is responsible for majority. In light of your thoughts, shouldn’t the state have a minority say in what goes on in schools? As a statewide percentage they are a minority stockholder, when do minority stockholders get to run the show? I say let them set a state scale if they are going to pay the salaries, that will only benefit our staff. - JS Mill - Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 10:47 am: =Honeybear, as much as I agree that we need to care about E StL schools, I’m of the mindset that perhaps the state needs to take over the school system.= They have. This is the second go around. The last time they left them with $10 plus million in the bank when the ISBE returned the schools back to local control. It only took a short time before they were back in trouble. 2 or three years ago the state took over again and pumped $9 million into the system to save it from financial collapse. That infusion came at the same time that some very responsible communities, many with high poverty, were making some tough financial decisions based on diminishing state revenue but still remaining solvent. Some times communities need to step up an take responsibility. BTW- Vman makes an excellent point. We have worked VERY hard to engage our citizens, especially seniors and those without students in the district, to demonstrate how our schools can provide value to them. - X-prof - Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 10:50 am: +1 Vman. Your fleeing neighbors too easily forget that their children’s educations were funded in part by previous, more civic-minded generations. - historic66 - Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 10:53 am: Anyone who feels that the current levels of funding for education are more than adequate hasn’t been in a school recently. - Honeybear - Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 10:54 am: Team Sleep, I’m actually with you on that. ESL is a hive of corruption and mismanagement. It’s rotten to the core. A state takeover would be welcome in my opinion. Those kids deserve better than they are getting. - veritas - Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 10:55 am: TeamSleep ===Honeybear, as much as I agree that we need to care about E StL schools, I’m of the mindset that perhaps the state needs to take over the school system. === That happened in 2012. Problem solved. - walker - Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 10:56 am: ==Consumerism has corrupted citizenship to such an extent that we don’t want to help others if it isn’t a bargain. Citizenship is an investment, not a bargain. At what point can we turn this mentality around?== Wonderful sentiment, beautifully expressed. More important: How can we turn this around? It has to be leadership, with messages calling for action and responsibility for more than our own families and pocketbooks. Don’t want to be partisan, but in my mind part of this deterioration in public citizenship goes hand-in-hand with the conservative economic mythos that if we just maximize our own returns, everyone else automatically benefits. How convenient a message! - ZC - Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 11:04 am: The other thing of course (and this should be counted as part of the budget, I stress) is that a growing amount of the $$ spent now goes to pensions and health care for retired teachers. So that helps resolve some of the “we spend X much / no-we-don’t-see-it-in-the-classroom” dichotomy. - Team Sleep - Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 11:12 am: JS Mill - yes, but they need to be taken over completely. And given the new mayor’s decision to hire former Mayor Alvin Parks as “city manager”, nothing will ever change. V Man, your point is well put but also a bit flawed. We all know we must pay taxes. We all know that it costs money to operate schools, build and maintain roads and allow for proper police and fire protection. But when retirees who have paid off their houses through grit and sacrifice are faced with $10,000+ property tax bills, rising healthcare costs and Social Security payments that are often stagnant, what do you expect their replies to be?! “Tax me more!”?! I get their concerns. My grandpa always railed against property taxes. I used to think he was a bit harsh - if not downright jerkish about it - but his property tax bills for his house and his farmground were enough to buy a new GMC truck every year. So when he retired, was he just supposed to “suck it up” and be a good citizen?! I understand that my local district (186) has issues and needs help, but nothing they can tell me would make me quote Frye from Futurama and proclaim, “Shut up and take my money!” - Lefty Lefty - Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 11:49 am: We had a leader with a plan 21 years ago. From Wikipedia: “(Dawn Clark) Netsch’s campaign slogan was “Not just another pretty face.[3]” She proposed increasing the state income tax rate from 3% to 4.25% to pay for educational funding and reduce property taxes, a plan which was attacked by her Republican opponent, Governor Jim Edgar.” 21 years! We’ve been dealing with this @#$@%^ for over 20 years. More from Wikipedia: “In 1996, the Democratic Party gained control of the Illinois House of Representatives. In 2002, a Democratic candidate became Illinois governor for the first time in 26 years and Democrats gained control over the Illinois Senate. With the exception of 2010 and 2014, Illinois Democrats have consistently gained more and more power in every election year in Illinois since the mid-1990s.” So instead of governing in the early 90s, the Republicans taxed and spent. Then the Dems came in, and they taxed and spent. And now the tides may be shifting again, and our “leaders” bicker about non-budget issues while the state economy crumbles. I wish I could move to WI on days like these. I could vote against Walker and at least feel like I did something with my vote. - Fedelm - Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 12:08 pm: “Most people who move to the suburbs select an area because of the quality of the public schools. Their home values are closely tied to the quality of those schools. I suppose there may be some people who would vote against their self-interest in that regard, but it hasn’t happened in any wealthy, Republican suburbs I am aware of, places with some of the best schools and highest paid teachers.” Admittedly I moved downstate a long time ago, but when I was a student in district 204 (Naperville-Aurora) the referendum to raise teacher salaries failed every single time (and we consequently had a high teacher turnover rate). Maybe something has changed in the past decade and residents in Naperville-Aurora are willing to pay more taxes for better teachers? - JS Mill - Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 12:09 pm: TS- I pay taxes too, I get it. So do my retired parents. Seniors do get additional exemptions on their property taxes that others do not. Right, wrong, or indifferent it is a fact. Their property tax burden is less. t is likely that when you were going to school, seniors at the time did not get the same breaks and property taxes were a concern then too. Disabled Veterans can end up paying no taxes depending on the level of disability. Do not misunderstand me, I am not necessarily;ly opposed to these exemptions just simply stating that they exist and have an impact. The legislature has increased the number and amount of exemptions without any analysis of the impact. Simply working to buy votes. More exemptions push more of the responsibility onto fewer people. When we receive our EAV estimates from the county assessors, we see what the real impact of those exemptions are. Couple the exemptions with TIF’s and Enterprise Zones and the tax base narrows in real ways and increases the burden on others. - JS Mill - Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 12:11 pm: = the referendum to raise teacher salaries = The schools run referendums to give them authority to increase tax rates not specifically teacher salaries. that may be what they want to do with the money but you can use Ed Fund money to pay for anything a district does. Teacher turn over in the district you mentioned has been vastly reduced btw. - Honeybear - Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 12:31 pm: –but his property tax bills for his house and his farmground were enough to buy a new GMC truck every year. So when he retired, was he just supposed to “suck it up” and be a good citizen?!– No he does not have to feel that he has to suck it up. He can choose if he wishes to feel joy and pleasure at seeing children go off to school in the morning knowing that he contributed to their education. I pay very high property taxes which I use to motivate me to be involved in/informed of the decisions of the school board, read the letters that come from the school district and be supportive of the efforts to maintain the quality of our school district. True I’ve got one in High School and one in middle school so I’m using the school system. But I doubt my stance will change. Even when I disagree with things my district is doing I still feel like I have voice and input in the system. - Big Joe - Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 12:37 pm: ZC Retired public school teachers don’t receive state health care insurance. Some teachers get state supported TRIP insurance through TRS, but no public retired teacher gets free health insurance. TRIP insurance is pretty expensive too. - Fedelm - Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 1:07 pm: “Teacher turn over in the district you mentioned has been vastly reduced btw. ” That’s good to know. - Formerly Known As... - Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 1:50 pm: ==In light of your thoughts, shouldn’t the state have a minority say in what goes on in schools? As a statewide percentage they are a minority stockholder, when do minority stockholders get to run the show? I say let them set a state scale if they are going to pay the salaries, that will only benefit our staff.== @JS Mill - my comment looks rhetorical, but it was not meant to. Local control is my preference, but I doubt the state would offer much additional funding for local salaries and costs without more control of those salaries and costs, even if the state is already not funding as much as they ==should be==. Better: ==Are we willing to give the state more control over those salaries if the state will give more money to pay those salaries?== Illinois ==should== be funding more already, but with school funding the elephant in the room is often who controls spending of ==other people’s money== - Anony Parent - Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 1:54 pm: (Perhaps I should add that we live two blocks from our local public school. There are more than 30 schools in our district, they assigned him to the one furthest from our house. It’d be different if we were out in the middle of exurbia, but we drive past 8 other schools on our way to the one they placed him at.) - Formerly Known As... - Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 1:56 pm: ==In light of your thoughts, shouldn’t the state have a minority say in what goes on in schools?== And yes, atm they should. A state scale would get my attention as well. - Anonymous - Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 2:44 pm: Although a smaller percentage of the tax bill, I think the taxes for Park Districts and Library Districts are getting out of control. When you combine the two, the total equals several hundred dollars to over a thousand in some suburbs. That’s ridiculous. To me, this is where some consolidation (and major savings) need to take place. - Hedley Lamarr - Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 4:15 pm: Americans want the best school systems in the world, they just don’t want to have to pay for it. - Anon III - Wednesday, Dec 2, 15 @ 5:04 pm: === The schools run referendums to give them authority to increase tax rates not specifically teacher salaries. that may be what they want to do with the money but you can use Ed Fund money to pay for anything a district does.=== Typically, eighty percent of Education Fund expenditures are for salary and benefits. Sorry, comments for this post are now closed.