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Madigan doubles down on Flint accusation

Wednesday, Jan 20, 2016

* From a press release…

House Speaker Michael J. Madigan released the following statement Wednesday after allies of Gov. Bruce Rauner announced plans for a state takeover of Chicago schools and to allow CPS to declare bankruptcy:

Seven months into a new fiscal year, the state still has no budget under Republican Governor Bruce Rauner, and it’s because he’s more interested in driving down the wages and standard of living of middle-class families than working together to solve our state’s problems.

Today, the sponsor of his new proposal admitted that this new plan is an attempt to force Governor Rauner’s agenda of destroying the middle class onto the Chicago Public Schools. Governor Rauner’s proposal could also help him achieve his goal of taking money away from public schools in order to establish more charter schools. Taking one unelected school board appointed by the mayor and allowing it to become a board of unelected and unaccountable bureaucrats appointed by Republican Governor Bruce Rauner is not a step in the right direction.

Governor Rauner hopes to use a crisis to impose his anti-middle class agenda. Republicans’ ultimate plans include allowing cities throughout the state to file for bankruptcy protection, which they admitted today would permit cities and school districts to end their contracts with teachers and workers – stripping thousands of their hard-earned retirement security and the middle-class living they have worked years to achieve. When Detroit was granted bankruptcy protection, retirement security was slashed for employees and retirees. That is not the path we want to follow in Illinois.

The disaster in Flint, Michigan, is a very timely example of how reckless decisions just to save a buck can have devastating consequences on children and families. In April 2014, under Republican leadership, the state of Michigan appointed an emergency manager to Flint to address a financial crisis, and switched Flint’s water source to the Flint River, which had long been known to be a dirty river. An earlier study showed that water from the river could have been drinkable had it been treated at a cost of about $36,000 a year. A crisis created by a Republican takeover could have been averted at what amounted to a mere fraction of a fraction of the state’s budget. That is not the path we want to follow in Illinois.

* And here’s Senate President John Cullerton’s response, in case you missed it in our live coverage post…

“This is not going to happen. It’s mean spirited and evidence of their total lack of knowledge of the real problems facing Chicago Public Schools. The unfair treatment of pension systems by the state is the immediate cause of CPS’ financial problem. That situation ought to be addressed rather than promoting this far-fetched notion that the state is somehow in the position to take over Chicago schools. This ridiculous idea only serves as a distraction from the state’s problems that these two state leaders should be focusing on.”

…Adding… Goldberg’s two cents…


- Posted by Rich Miller        

56 Comments
  1. - Norseman - Wednesday, Jan 20, 16 @ 12:15 pm:

    Like Rauner, you’ve got to play to the horror story at hand whether it’s factually relevant or not. It makes convincing folks so much easier.


  2. - Georg Sande - Wednesday, Jan 20, 16 @ 12:20 pm:

    This supports the theory that Madigan has become unhinged.


  3. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Jan 20, 16 @ 12:20 pm:

    Twitter always helps a situation…


  4. - Wow - Wednesday, Jan 20, 16 @ 12:21 pm:

    Got to give Bruce credit, he doesn’t deviate from his plan.. Now if someone can just teach him to count to 30 and then 60….


  5. - Not it - Wednesday, Jan 20, 16 @ 12:24 pm:

    Why single out Rep. Harris?


  6. - Team Sleep - Wednesday, Jan 20, 16 @ 12:33 pm:

    CPS asking for nearly $500 million (on top of its normal appropriation) for just this fiscal year is not a “mere” fraction of the budget. That would be several state universities’s direct funding from the state.

    What happened and is happening in Flint is terrible, but this seems to be quite the apples-to-oranges comparison.


  7. - Jack Stephens - Wednesday, Jan 20, 16 @ 12:35 pm:

    In the Republican P&L its cheaper to serve leaded water and house people in prison or a nursing home than to pay to make the water safe.

    Its cheaper to pay teachers the same wage with no bene’s as a Mayo Slapper at the local franchise sandwich shop and let the kids wind up in prison.

    Hopefully this convinces everyone, even though it is factually relevant.


  8. - Jack Stephens - Wednesday, Jan 20, 16 @ 12:38 pm:

    Because, you know, its NOT like you need to drink water for anything.

    Only in the world of conservatives is water considered not relevant.


  9. - Dee Lay - Wednesday, Jan 20, 16 @ 12:44 pm:

    “Rep Greg Harris voted 2 allow state 2 takeover any school dist in #IL EXCEPT CPS, now against removing exception ”

    Richie - Did you mean “, still against removing exception” if he hasn’t changed position?


  10. - some doofus - Wednesday, Jan 20, 16 @ 12:46 pm:

    The timing is hilarious. Who would announce a state takeover plan on the day that Flint went viral?

    A friend told me that Rauner is an early adopter of a new nanotech ear that has completely disrupted the market for tin ears. It’s even tinnier.


  11. - @MisterJayEm - Wednesday, Jan 20, 16 @ 12:54 pm:

    “Who would announce a state takeover plan on the day that Flint went viral?”

    Bruce Rauner simply doesn’t have time to care about some common folks in Michigan, he’s much too busy not caring about common folks in Illinois!

    – MrJM


  12. - wordslinger - Wednesday, Jan 20, 16 @ 12:54 pm:

    The Flint comparison doesn’t make sense. The state took over Chicago school finances before without bankruptcy. I believe Madigan was on board with that at the time.

    The Flint scandal is one for the books. After the switchover, for more than a year, the state ignored or ridiculed everyone who was screaming about the water.

    They ignored residents. They ignored doctors and nurses dealing with sick patients. They ignored independent water testers. They ignored General Motors, who shut off Flint water at its engine plant because it was corroding metal.

    My son’s girlfriend’s mother is a nurse at a Flint area hospital. She’s been dealing with patients sick from the water since Day One. State regulators called the peeps at her hospitals “hysterics” for months.

    The whole family is bedrock GOP. The whole family wants everyone from the governor on down to go to prison for criminal negligence.


  13. - Rich Miller - Wednesday, Jan 20, 16 @ 12:57 pm:

    ===Who would announce a state takeover plan on the day that Flint went viral?===

    The same folks who announced autism cuts on World Autism Day, and the same crew that announced an impasse with AFSCME on the birthday of a man who was assassinated while on his third trip to Memphis to help AFSCME organize sanitation workers.


  14. - Wensicia - Wednesday, Jan 20, 16 @ 12:58 pm:

    Rauner has ignored the suffering of thousands negatively affected by his refusing to talk budget until his demands are met.


  15. - Anonymous - Wednesday, Jan 20, 16 @ 1:01 pm:

    ===Who would announce a state takeover plan on the day that Flint went viral?===

    The same folks who announced autism cuts on World Autism Day, and the same crew that announced an impasse with AFSCME on the birthday of a man who was assassinated while on his third trip to Memphis to help AFSCME organize sanitation workers.==

    That is real superstar work.


  16. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Jan 20, 16 @ 1:07 pm:

    ===The same folks who announced autism cuts on World Autism Day, and the same crew that announced an impasse with AFSCME on the birthday of a man who was assassinated while on his third trip to Memphis to help AFSCME organize sanitation workers.===

    The Rauner SuperStars aren’t about the optics of what they do, the Rauner SuperStars are about appeasing Rauner whenever and however that needs to be done.

    Serving an elected official by catering to whims and ignoring significance of timing is doomed to eventually fail the whim and the purpose of the whim.


  17. - Anon2U - Wednesday, Jan 20, 16 @ 1:08 pm:

    Madigan pushing fear. Classic. Way to distract people from where, you know, CPS and Chicago actually finacially are, with hyperbole suggesting certain doom if you try and fix it. Correct me if I’m wrong Mr. Speaker but isn’t President Obama in Detroit TODAY touting their turnaround (oops. I said it) under a very similar path?


  18. - Crafty Girl - Wednesday, Jan 20, 16 @ 1:10 pm:

    “===Who would announce a state takeover plan on the day that Flint went viral?===

    The same folks who announced autism cuts on World Autism Day, and the same crew that announced an impasse with AFSCME on the birthday of a man who was assassinated while on his third trip to Memphis to help AFSCME organize sanitation workers.”

    It’s almost as if he believes all 12.9 million residents of Illinois just fell off the back of a turnip truck.


  19. - Mason born - Wednesday, Jan 20, 16 @ 1:14 pm:

    Ok. Madigan is full of It on this one. First off to show I’m not being partisan about it I have a degree in Engineering from U of I and am a liscensed proffesional engineer in this state.

    1st the Flint river is NOT contaminated with lead or any more contaminated than the rivers used here such as the Mississippi, Illinois, or the fox. If it was the Flint treament could remove it. So that isn’t it.

    2nd the lead is in the service lines and solder to some homes in Flint. Just as it is to many homes in Chicago or any other older city. If your home is 50+ years old there is a good chance that the original plumbing had lead in it. Especially service lines. If you can afford to replace it you should.

    3rd the lead service lines and solder are most likely not the responsibility of the public water supply. In our state the public water supplies responsibility ends at the water meter.

    4th this was an engineering-opertional-supervision failure. When Flint changed water source it changed the water chemistry and created a higher alkaline water which creted a process by which lead and copper leached into the water. Proper eengineering work shoud have adjusted for this prior to the switch. Operations people should have known via routine alkalinity testing that this was happening and adjusted the chemistry accordingly. The regulatory agencies, MI and USEPA, should have seen the test results and required corrective action and public notification.

    5th the reason this seems to impact the less fortunate most has to do with the type of homes they inhabit. Again it is older homes with original lead pipe and solder. The poor are the least likely to have the resources to correct it.

    Finally if you live in an older house and don’t know if it does or doesn’t have lead solder or service lines. Please get it checked when you can until then let the water run until the teperature changes prior to taking water you intend to consume. Lead leaches when water sits in the pipe and settles drawing fresh water will flush the lead out temporarily.

    There is a good write up on this at the Kettering Uniersity website. Goes into better detail.


  20. - Team Sleep - Wednesday, Jan 20, 16 @ 1:16 pm:

    I think that Word and Rich are both right. The comparison of Flint - which is an environmental and health travesty - is not really in the same ballpark as school reform. And yet Rauner clearly disseminates info whenever he wants, but it certainly gets people’s attention due to the, ahem, conspicuous timing. It reminds me of what President Garcia-Thompson said in “PCU”: “You organized a smoke-a-thon on Earth Day!”


  21. - Demoralized - Wednesday, Jan 20, 16 @ 1:18 pm:

    ==Madigan pushing fear. Classic. ==

    What in the world do you think Rauner is doing? This whole ordeal is about creating fear and then telling us all who is to blame for it.

    =====

    To the post:

    Enough with this sort of nonsense. We’ve had to live through the ridiculous comments about Illinois being Detroit. Now we’re on to Flint. Just. Stop.


  22. - Mason born - Wednesday, Jan 20, 16 @ 1:18 pm:

    Sorry for all the spelling errors apparently it’s time to upgrade my phone.


  23. - Ahoy! - Wednesday, Jan 20, 16 @ 1:19 pm:

    Reasonable people do not see correlation between this and Flint. If Madigan truly believes this why did the State pass law to allow it to take over every other school system in the state?

    Is Madigan getting desperate or just loosing his touch?


  24. - Ahoy! - Wednesday, Jan 20, 16 @ 1:29 pm:

    By the way, I’m not lobbying for the State to take over CPS, but comparing it to Flint is just nuts.


  25. - Anon2U - Wednesday, Jan 20, 16 @ 1:31 pm:

    Demoralized,
    Chicago and CPS are in a very real financial crisis. This is not new news. I do not say this to instill fear in anyone. Failure to act (looking at you Rahm) is only compounding a disaster that will very soon result chaos and uncertainty for all who reside within the borders of CPS. If you do not think a restructuring of the CPS finances is a solution I would suggest that Rahm, Madigan, Cullerton, Claypool or Lewis offer their ideas up. ASAP. I’ll be waiting without holding my breath…


  26. - Norseman - Wednesday, Jan 20, 16 @ 1:38 pm:

    Word and Team Sleep, you’re 100% correct. Accuracy and honesty are not of concern to Rauner, Madigan and too many politicians. They’ll use whatever horrible tale - relevant or not - they can to convince people to side with them.

    Sad isn’t it.


  27. - Demoralized - Wednesday, Jan 20, 16 @ 1:40 pm:

    ==I do not say this to instill fear in anyone.==

    You may not be doing that. But our elected officials sure are. They are counting on us all being afraid so that we’ll give in to whatever demands they happen to be making. This isn’t about ideas. It’s about getting exactly what they want.


  28. - Anonymous - Wednesday, Jan 20, 16 @ 2:03 pm:

    There is only one problem with this: the comparison does not apply.

    Flint, MI had a perfectly fine water supply before the state stepped in and ruined it.

    CPS does not have a perfectly fine anything at the moment. They ruined it all by themselves.


  29. - Last Bull Moose - Wednesday, Jan 20, 16 @ 2:11 pm:

    Mason born. Thanks. This the first technical description of what happened in Flint that I have heard.

    I don’t think that Flint provides a good comparison. Federal takeovers of school districts might be more apt.


  30. - Nick Danger - Wednesday, Jan 20, 16 @ 2:13 pm:

    Using the terrible mess in Flint as political fodder in a war with Rauner is worth little. Brown/Madigan are back on their heels and the Flint “analogy” smacks of a desperate grasp. They’ve never dealt with assaults on so many fronts.


  31. - Mason born - Wednesday, Jan 20, 16 @ 2:17 pm:

    Moose

    There is plenty of blame to go around in Flint but the sensationalism is liable to prevent any positive changes out of this thing.


  32. - Lincoln Lad - Wednesday, Jan 20, 16 @ 2:23 pm:

    Comparing this to Flint is one of the lamest moves yet in this ‘epic’ struggle. Keep telling yourself you’re winning Mr. Speaker.


  33. - Huh? - Wednesday, Jan 20, 16 @ 2:25 pm:

    Mason - Coulda, woulda, shoulda. The state appointed overseer vetoed the solution to prevent the problem with lead in the water as too expensive. As a I recall the cost was in the range of $100/day.

    I have no confidence that 1.4% could have his superstars run the CPS any better than they are running the state.


  34. - Robert the Bruce - Wednesday, Jan 20, 16 @ 2:25 pm:

    The Flint analogy is weak.

    But this doesn’t mean Madigan/Brown are desperate or unhinged. I’d call it a calculated lie to shore up and/or motivate supporters.


  35. - JoanP - Wednesday, Jan 20, 16 @ 2:39 pm:

    ” Who would announce a state takeover plan on the day that Flint went viral?”

    The situation with Flint’s water supply, the politics behind the switch, the declaration of a federal emergency have all been headline news for WEEKS.


  36. - X-prof - Wednesday, Jan 20, 16 @ 2:40 pm:

    @Mason Born. You are mistaken in claiming that the lead leaching is limited to residential piping in older homes. Quoting President McMahon’s letter from the Kettering U website, “The water within some sections of the ***distribution network*** was, however, contaminated after passing through the water treatment facility by the leaching of metals such as lead, iron, and copper from lead service lines and lines containing lead solder.” In other words, the lead was in the water before it reached individual residences in the affected areas in Flint.

    Further, ” … US federal law requires all municipal water systems to have a corrosion control plan to address this possibility; the regulation is known as the Lead and Copper Rule.” So, we have a violation of federal law and probably a case for criminal negligence for whoever was responsible. There’s also the denial and lengthy delay in response from the emergency managers.

    Even if your scenario were accurate, the sudden change in the chemistry of water supplied to residences, without warning and without time and financial means for the citizens of Flint to react, would be a violation of professional ethics, at a minimum, and likely a case of criminal negligence.

    Other than that, you do provide good advice to people living in older homes.


  37. - Mason born - Wednesday, Jan 20, 16 @ 2:43 pm:

    Huh?

    Not sure where should woulda comes in. This is negligence at every level and may be criminal. All of the entities I mentioned had an ethical duty to prevent this. Every level of the system failed the residents of Flint. From their Engineers to u.s.epa.


  38. - What the what - Wednesday, Jan 20, 16 @ 2:44 pm:

    ==Robert the Bruce - Wednesday, Jan 20, 16 @ 2:25 pm:

    The Flint analogy is weak.

    But this doesn’t mean Madigan/Brown are desperate or unhinged. I’d call it a calculated lie to shore up and/or motivate supporters.==

    Radogno and Durkin injected Flint into the conversation during their press conference. I think Madigan was pointing out the irony


  39. - Rich Miller - Wednesday, Jan 20, 16 @ 2:53 pm:

    ===Radogno and Durkin injected Flint into the conversation during their press conference===

    No. Brown brought it up yesterday.


  40. - Rabid - Wednesday, Jan 20, 16 @ 2:57 pm:

    Goldberg keep up you have been ooda looped. You sound confused


  41. - wordslinger - Wednesday, Jan 20, 16 @ 3:01 pm:

    –The situation with Flint’s water supply, the politics behind the switch, the declaration of a federal emergency have all been headline news for WEEKS.–

    Gov. Snyder made the federal emergency request last Thursday. Pres. Obama signed it last Saturday.

    By your calendar, how many WEEKS are there in six days?


  42. - Rabid - Wednesday, Jan 20, 16 @ 3:03 pm:

    The blame for flint falls on the governor is this what there trying to say?


  43. - Junior - Wednesday, Jan 20, 16 @ 3:04 pm:

    Perhaps Rauner sees CPS as a political problem in the making for Rahm and MJM. This proposal has no chance of passing, so why did Rauner make the proposal? Maybe to have Rahm and Madigan further own the problem when the crap continues to hit the fan? The talking points write themselves when that happens….”the Mayor and Speaker refused to address this issue back in January of 2016 when I tried to deal with the issue…..”

    MJM’s use of Flint was an error, imo. Does he really think regular people are going to see these two situations as anywhere near analogous?


  44. - Groundhog Day - Wednesday, Jan 20, 16 @ 3:08 pm:

    Personally, I think the point about bringing up Flint is that these systems run by government are extremely complex, and bringing in simplistic thinking people focused on the “bottom line” can lead to actual loss of life and disaster.


  45. - chi - Wednesday, Jan 20, 16 @ 3:13 pm:

    In Michigan, a Republican Gov took control of local governmental entities in an effort to cut spending.
    In Illinois, a Republican Gov wants to take control of local governmental entities in an effort to cut spending.

    In Michigan, the result was tragedy. 8,000 children poisoned. At least a dozen deaths due to Legionnaires disease. It is completely within bounds to use this current example to warn of the dangers of slashing and burning at all costs.


  46. - Huh? - Wednesday, Jan 20, 16 @ 3:16 pm:

    Mason - It was the state appointed penny pincher that said no. The ethical responsible people wanted to do the right things to prevent this problem. It was the ethically responsible people who were trying to bring this to the attention of the state appointed penny pincher and were dismissed as hysterical people who didn’t know what they were talking about.


  47. - X-prof - Wednesday, Jan 20, 16 @ 3:17 pm:

    ===2nd the lead is in the service lines and solder to some homes in Flint. Just as it is to many homes in Chicago or any other older city. If your home is 50+ years old there is a good chance that the original plumbing had lead in it. Especially service lines. If you can afford to replace it you should.

    3rd the lead service lines and solder are most likely not the responsibility of the public water supply. In our state the public water supplies responsibility ends at the water meter. ===

    Your point 3 is wrong. The leaching occurred in the distribution network, not on the residence side of water meters for individual homes. It absolutely is the responsibility of the (people and engineers managing) the public water supply. Perhaps it wasn’t your intent, but this seems to shift the blame to homeowners who didn’t upgrade their plumbing. Upgraded piping or a newer home would provide no protection to affected areas of Flint. Again, Federal law places the responsibility to control the pH on the city.

    Point 2 is also wrong if you mean “service lines” to refer to piping to individual homes.

    Nothing about the engineering technicalities undermines Madigan’s point. His problem is the stretch between an unlikely takeover of a school system vs a town’s entire infrastructure.


  48. - Mason born - Wednesday, Jan 20, 16 @ 3:19 pm:

    X-prof

    Actually the feds required all public water supplies to replace any lead piping in their systems effective april 11, 2000. Section 141.84 (d) of the LCRMR you can look it up on the U.S.EPA website. So President McMahon was most likely referring to service lines in residence. Further public water suppplies are required to maintain positive pressure on the distribution system. Any leaching would have to come from residence to supply which is unlikely.

    No where did I say this wasn’t a collosal mess. With potential criminal repercusions. Please enlighten me as to where I stated that?

    My major gripe with this whole thing has been the sensational aspect of the whole thing. This isn’t an issue unique to a specifc city or state. It isn’t unique to the Flint River or based on Flints demographics. The media, politicians, and celebrities have so effectively clouded the issue that a tragic tale has become a farce lacking any semblance to reality.


  49. - NewWestSuburbanGOP'er - Wednesday, Jan 20, 16 @ 3:20 pm:

    Rich Miller - Wednesday, Jan 20, 16 @ 12:57 pm:

    ===Who would announce a state takeover plan on the day that Flint went viral?===

    The same folks who announced autism cuts on World Autism Day, and the same crew that announced an impasse with AFSCME on the birthday of a man who was assassinated while on his third trip to Memphis to help AFSCME organize sanitation workers.

    Bravo Rich!


  50. - Mason born - Wednesday, Jan 20, 16 @ 3:36 pm:

    X prof

    Again sorry to confuse u look up the lcrmr u.s. epa. Systems were required to replace lead service lines in their system and inform residents of the replacement and OFFER at the owners expense to replace any lead service lines into the residence.

    You seem to feel I am blaming the victims not the case at all simply stating fact in IL the distribution system to the meter is the pws beyond the meter it is the residence.

    Madigans contention that the Flint “was a dirty river” that caused this is factually fale. The issue with the water is treatment not source.

    Huh?

    I honestly don’t care which bureacrat said boo as far as I’m concerned every link in the chain needs to have heads role.


  51. - Jack Stephens - Wednesday, Jan 20, 16 @ 4:03 pm:

    It is about the same.

    A self proclaimed “successful” businessman gets elected Republican Governor to break up unions.

    In one instance there is a State Takeover of the water delivery system by appointing a non elected “manager” to save money.

    In another instance there is a State Takeover of a school system by appointing a non elected school board to save money.

    For being so picky about small government and saving tax dollars, neither of these Governors are the sharpest knives in the drawers in real life.


  52. - Mason born - Wednesday, Jan 20, 16 @ 4:08 pm:

    X prof

    You are correct that the pws is required to control ph. Which is why the blame falls on city engineers, water operators, and both MI and U.S. EPA regulators.

    This.is a potential problem anywhere lead piping and solder is still being used. Unfortunately all that can be done at the public level is to specify ph levels and testing. Unfortunatey it will be up to homeowners to remove the lead in their own homes. Personally would love to see a tax rebate for replacement costs of service line.


  53. - Anonin' - Wednesday, Jan 20, 16 @ 4:12 pm:

    The issue is Flint caused by GOPie overseer…since the Superstars have bungled all of the above plus the fair day care etc who believes they would know where to start


  54. - X-prof - Wednesday, Jan 20, 16 @ 4:41 pm:

    @ Mason - I was careful to write, “Perhaps it wasn’t your intent, but this seems to shift the blame to homeowners …” I’m glad that it wasn’t your intent.

    The leaching occurred in both places, supply lines and the wider distribution system. According to McMahon: “After the switch to river water, a failure to treat the water for corrosivity by managing its chemistry (I skip some chemistry here) lead (sic) to the erosion (and release) of lead-bearing pipe scale in supply lines and lead/copper galvanic corrosion of lead solder and lead copper joints ***in the distribution system***.”

    The 2000 federal law you cite does not make the engineering upgrade to lead-free construction a reality in every neighborhood. Again from McMahon: “Older parts of the system, especially sections built in the 1940’s through the 1960’s that have not been upgraded since their construction are disproportionately vulnerable.”

    I think the “sensationalism” is warranted in the case of Flint which did not have a problem until the emergency managers took over and screwed it up (and then denied the problem). The presence of lead and high corrosivity in the water supply, on the public side of the water meter, is a bigger deal than the typical lead hazard in older homes. That there are other places in the US where lead poisoning is routine is a disgrace that merits some sensationalism of its own, IMO.

    I think we’re getting a little too deep into technical details for the purposes of this discussion. We probably have some differences on the political implications, but that’s OK. We agree that Flint is a tragedy that didn’t have to happen, and that there were failures at multiple levels.


  55. - Anonymous - Wednesday, Jan 20, 16 @ 5:04 pm:

    What a sad attempt at fear mongering.

    Flint’s water was and would have remained okay without state interference. Chicago’s public schools, not so much.

    The two situations are not comparable, except as a lie to scare people.


  56. - Mason born - Wednesday, Jan 20, 16 @ 5:55 pm:

    X prof

    No offense sir but I suspect that when the post event analysis comes out it will signify the distinction. Quite honestly any in system distribution piping will not be soldered being eithet cast iron, transite, or pvc. None of which are soldered.

    For the sake of brevity I’m willing to agree to disagree.

    Michael Moore claiming this is all about racism does nothingto improve the situation. Politicians making hay doesn’t help the situation. Actually discussing the real serious issues will and may prevent future issues.

    Prof curious what you taught?


Sorry, comments for this post are now closed.


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