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Question of the day

Wednesday, Aug 31, 2016

* Agree or disagree? Explain…


- Posted by Rich Miller        

52 Comments
  1. - Honeybear - Wednesday, Aug 31, 16 @ 4:01 pm:

    Good call Bruce. Declaring Martial Law is a pretty big deal. Feds would be most interested in that.


  2. - Sick & Tired - Wednesday, Aug 31, 16 @ 4:03 pm:

    Agree. Having people in uniforms with guns will not stop the people not in uniforms with guns. Understanding and properly addressing the root causes of violence is the only answer, and causes are a far cry from being reasonably, easily, quickly fixed by the mere presence of military force.


  3. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Aug 31, 16 @ 4:05 pm:

    Isn’t the Illinois Nationsl Guard busy enough?

    Starting tomorrow “Operation Phony Baloney” is in full swing, the National Guard occupying state government.

    Maybe Rauner knows his occupying army will be busy?

    Ugh.

    To the Post,

    If we need to have ILNG save lives where other methods are failing, maybe Rahm and Rauner need to talk about what can be done.

    No ILNG? Ok, fine.

    What can be done? What needs to be assisted to keep Chicagoans safe?


  4. - Huh? - Wednesday, Aug 31, 16 @ 4:07 pm:

    Oh God, do I have to agree with 1.4%? If a guardsman shot someone, the city would really explode.


  5. - m - Wednesday, Aug 31, 16 @ 4:09 pm:

    Agree that it’s a bad idea. But I know the police in Springfield swear by those portable police camera things that have the flashing blue and red lights. They say people don’t want to commit crimes near those. So get a lot of those.

    Or do the guard idea and put 3 soldiers together on every intersection and see if the deterrence factor is similar.

    I have a feeling soldiers would either be scared to act on anything or we’d have a lot more protests when the MP’s start operating like they do on bases or in foreign countries.


  6. - Keyrock - Wednesday, Aug 31, 16 @ 4:11 pm:

    He’s right. But he forgot the part about what would make sense, like helping the City’s finances so it could hire more police, fully funding social services that help people get jobs and treat their mental illness, increasing penalties for repeat gun offenders . . . .


  7. - JDuc - Wednesday, Aug 31, 16 @ 4:12 pm:

    How do we know if we don’t try it ? With all the killing it would be nice if someone tried something new. Give it a shot and see if the killing goes down, if not, withdraw the troops.


  8. - Anon - Wednesday, Aug 31, 16 @ 4:12 pm:

    ===Isn’t the Illinois Nationsl Guard busy enough?===

    OW beat me to the joke.

    I disagree. Sending armed soldiers into civilian areas to enforce laws can be very risky when the folks that had previously been enforcing laws have stirred contempt by pretty plainly failing to acknowledge that the folks they police have rights.

    The National Guard only belongs there if the city is completely dismissing it’s police force.


  9. - MOON - Wednesday, Aug 31, 16 @ 4:18 pm:

    It may cut the violence during their duty. Eventually the Guard would leave and we would be right back where we started…MORE VIOLENCE.

    In my humble opinion it requires the residents of these violent areas to report crimes/criminals whenever they have the info.This would require real bravery on the part of these residents. I can only hope the residents have the will and
    spine to do it.


  10. - Cubs in '16 - Wednesday, Aug 31, 16 @ 4:18 pm:

    ===Oh God, do I have to agree with 1.4%? If a guardsman shot someone, the city would really explode.===

    Yep. Think ‘Kent State’.


  11. - Sangamo Sam - Wednesday, Aug 31, 16 @ 4:19 pm:

    Strongly disagree. The police have become too militarized already and IMHO that’s part of the problem. The real military would send things further over the edge and we’d look more like a banana republic.

    Besides, this looks like it’s right outa Trump’s playbook. I though Rauner wasn’t going to endorse! /snark


  12. - Huh? - Wednesday, Aug 31, 16 @ 4:21 pm:

    JDuc - what are you going to have the NG drive? MRAPS? Hummers with a machine gun in the turrets? Or my favorite, the M1 Abrams tank? It is bad enough that many people already view the police as a militarized agency. Bringing the NG dressed in camo will make the situation even worse.

    I remember crossing the NG line in Grant Park in 1968. It was no fun to see the rifles and pistols drawn.

    I was at O’hare a few weeks ago and a swat officer was walking around the terminal with his rifle. It was a very uncomfortable feeling.


  13. - Mama Retired - Wednesday, Aug 31, 16 @ 4:23 pm:

    How will the national guard know who their enemy is?


  14. - Juice - Wednesday, Aug 31, 16 @ 4:23 pm:

    MOON, also would require the police to take the reports seriously, unlike with Rhymefest, or not make the situation even worse, unlike Bettie Jones.


  15. - Just Me - Wednesday, Aug 31, 16 @ 4:23 pm:

    The National Guard is not trained to deal with crime issues, it is a horrible idea. They don’t have police powers, they don’t have the ability to detain or question, the list goes on and on. They also are trained with assault rifles, which we really don’t need on the streets.

    People who advocate for this idea (Blagojevich, Pfleger) are just looking for attention, they’re not interested in real solutions.


  16. - Anonymous - Wednesday, Aug 31, 16 @ 4:25 pm:

    ==Strongly disagree. The police have become too militarized already and IMHO that’s part of the problem. The real military would send things further over the edge and we’d look more like a banana republic.

    Besides, this looks like it’s right outa Trump’s playbook. I though Rauner wasn’t going to endorse! /snark==

    Are you disagreeing with what he said? Perhaps you should read it again…


  17. - Ron Burgundy - Wednesday, Aug 31, 16 @ 4:25 pm:

    Yep. Bad idea. We’re not a police state. Would anger local residents, increase the risk of escalation and tragic incidents and demoralize the local cops.


  18. - olddog - Wednesday, Aug 31, 16 @ 4:28 pm:

    Is there a context for this, or are Rauner and the Trib just bloviating again?


  19. - Saluki - Wednesday, Aug 31, 16 @ 4:29 pm:

    It is an excellent idea. However it could not be implemented in Chicago for the same reasons that the violence has been allowed to go on for so long.


  20. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Aug 31, 16 @ 4:30 pm:

    ===If a guardsman shot someone, the city would really explode.===

    This.

    It’s too volitale on American soil to have military personnel involved in altercations.

    There has to be “better”

    The Governor and the Mayor need to find that “better”


  21. - 35/Shields - Wednesday, Aug 31, 16 @ 4:30 pm:

    There’s an old story about the former head of the FBI observing military hostage crisis training and asking one of the gear-laden service members where he keeps his handcuffs. The service member shot back a puzzled look and told him, “Arresting people is not our mission, Sir.”

    Sending in the military to do a job is only a good idea if the job is to kill people and break their stuff.


  22. - Last Bull Moose - Wednesday, Aug 31, 16 @ 4:41 pm:

    Rauner is correct on this point. I don’t know what the rules of engagement would be if the National Guard were deployed. At the time of Kent State the Federal rules of engagement meant that only the officers had live ammo and they were to give it to designated shooters if necessary. The Ohio National Guard was allowed to have live ammo in their weapons, hence the shooting.

    Besides people, the entire Illinois National Guard is only 13,000 people. That is the size of the Chicago Police Department.

    Remember the 13,000 number when people blather on about the Guard replacing State workers. There are simply not enough of them.


  23. - titan - Wednesday, Aug 31, 16 @ 4:42 pm:

    Bringing the military in to do police work would be a constitutional nightmare.


  24. - 47th Ward - Wednesday, Aug 31, 16 @ 4:43 pm:

    If the National Guard was being deployed to help idle young men in Chicago further their education and training so that they could be employed to work productively in Chicago, I’d say YES.

    Until somebody does something concrete to address the lack of opportunities for young black and Hispanic men, adding armed combat troops to the situation will not help.


  25. - Payback - Wednesday, Aug 31, 16 @ 4:44 pm:

    Sangamo- “The police have become too militarized already…” Excellent observation. You robbed me of my snarky comment. I was going to say, why bother, the police have become militarized already!

    Pre 9-11-2001 I saw a flier that alarmed me. It was an ad for paramilitary training for police at Marseilles Army Natl. Guard area. Training was to be conducted by active duty and retired military. People we later came to know as Blackwater types. The sponsoring cop organization was NTOA (Natl. Tactical Officers Association.) Which are what us “civilians” would call SWAT teams.

    This type of militarization of the police and the mentality that foments “domestic enemies” is the real threat to the Constitution and the rule of law, not ISIS or any foreign enemy of the U.S.


  26. - JDuc - Wednesday, Aug 31, 16 @ 4:46 pm:

    Sounds like the killing will sadly continue…..

    “We can’t”, “We shouldn’t” “Unless”….


  27. - A guy - Wednesday, Aug 31, 16 @ 4:48 pm:

    I agree. More cops with some specialized training? Sure. Battle fatigues? No.


  28. - Cheryl44 - Wednesday, Aug 31, 16 @ 4:56 pm:

    Of course he’s right about not sending in the Guard. But that doesn’t mean he’s doing anything about the root causes of the problems people face.


  29. - Mason born - Wednesday, Aug 31, 16 @ 4:56 pm:

    Agree with the only caveat being the governor should have stated it was a bat crap crazy Idea.

    The Guard are soldiers. Soldiers go to places we don’t want to, break things and kill people. That is the job. Delivering aid after a hurricane or rescuing flood victims are secondary skills. Soldiets don’t worry about Constitutional Rights or Individual liberties.

    Even MP’s don’t deal with the same liberties we citizens enjoy. Once you enlist you yield many of those liberties as part of the deal.

    There is no feasible mission for the Guard in Chicago. There is no uniformed enemy to fight. No terrain to seize. They’d be surrounded by citizens who look exactly like the trouble.

    No a 1000 time NO.


  30. - Jon - Wednesday, Aug 31, 16 @ 5:00 pm:

    While the violence in Chicago is not a laughing matter, my first thought about the Illinois National Guard and Chicago was the Blues Brothers movie.


  31. - fed up - Wednesday, Aug 31, 16 @ 5:05 pm:

    I agree with the Governor. The issue I have is with the premise of the question. A better question would have been what does he think is causing the spike in violence in Chicago.


  32. - zatoichi - Wednesday, Aug 31, 16 @ 5:08 pm:

    Thought the National Guard was pre-booked for several weeks of office work starting tomorrow. Unless there is a very large serious catastrophe (weather or prop damage) no need for NG.


  33. - Levois - Wednesday, Aug 31, 16 @ 5:09 pm:

    While I agree there is a problem with the violence in order for there be a need for the national guard there would have to be outright unrest. We have a problem that is more or less we have to use the police than the military to solve. I’d rather utitlize other resources especially dare I say the State Police. I’m going to agree with Rauner.


  34. - Rich Miller - Wednesday, Aug 31, 16 @ 5:10 pm:

    I would say yes to the Guard, but ONLY if soldiers were used to free up cops from office duty. If the Guard could be used to get cops onto the street, then fine.

    The National Guard can be useful during rioting, because it’s site specific. They stand there and prevent people from accessing a building or street or whatever. Putting them on patrol? Risky as heck.

    We have a very well-trained MP unit based in Springfield (I briefly embedded with them while in Baghdad). I trusted those men and women with my life and they were top notch folks. So, maybe… MAYBE we could talk about using them. Many are cops in “real life.” But they’d have to be specially trained for this mission and there really aren’t a lot of them. So, it’s probably not all that useful to deploy them - if they’re even available right now.


  35. - ISP - Wednesday, Aug 31, 16 @ 5:14 pm:

    Detail have the ISP for six months,rotate them out and send the other half. The Federal prosecutors and IL attorney general’s office should also be ask for assistance. Mandatory sentences for Felons with guns


  36. - Rich Miller - Wednesday, Aug 31, 16 @ 5:16 pm:

    Here’s a column I did on the MP’s in Iraq http://www.thezephyr.com/miller/rmiller042904.htm


  37. - Signal and Noise - Wednesday, Aug 31, 16 @ 5:18 pm:

    The first time I’ve typed this: 100% agree with Rauner.

    What would you have them do? Patrol streets with M-16 rifles and tactical combat vehicles? This is still America folks. We have significant crime issues that stem from generations of poverty. A military response would be unprecedented and not in a good way.


  38. - cdog - Wednesday, Aug 31, 16 @ 5:27 pm:

    I wonder what the families of this year’s 464 decedents think?

    http://crime.chicagotribune.com/chicago/homicides

    The map in this link shows obvious hot spots that an increased presence of law enforcement would be welcomed by the normal people trying to live there.

    I disagree with Rauner. Protect these innocent civilians from such a rapidly degrading situation.


  39. - OneMan - Wednesday, Aug 31, 16 @ 5:35 pm:

    Agree in general not their skill set. Really don’t think it would help and has the potential to make things much worse.


  40. - Dome Gnome - Wednesday, Aug 31, 16 @ 5:39 pm:

    I will also swallow my pride and go on record as saying that I agree with the governor. Don’t get too used to this, everybody.


  41. - FormerParatrooper - Wednesday, Aug 31, 16 @ 5:44 pm:

    I agree with Rich, the MP’s would be an asset. They are only a Battalion size element and would not free up all the desk jockeys in the CPD, but maybe they could provide enough relief for good officers to go out on patrol.

    That is a short term solution to a long term problem. What do we do after?


  42. - Brian - Wednesday, Aug 31, 16 @ 5:44 pm:

    Revealing story + video in the Trib today about what some local residents think about an “increased presence of law enforcement”

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/zorn/ct-rhymefest-robbed-chicago-police-taunted-perspec-0831-jm-20160830-column.html


  43. - RNUG - Wednesday, Aug 31, 16 @ 5:45 pm:

    I actually agree with Rauner on this. Putting the National Guard on the streets won’t solve anything unless he is willing to also impose martial law on Chicago.

    What Rauner should look at is helping to get civilians into support and back office positions so more sworn officers can be put on the street.


  44. - Wensicia - Wednesday, Aug 31, 16 @ 6:04 pm:

    No. I don’t think this will help, only further erode relationships between African Americans and law enforcement.


  45. - Anon221 - Wednesday, Aug 31, 16 @ 6:07 pm:

    http://wglt.org/post/seeking-solutions-keeping-hope-midst-violence

    The Urban Warriors Project.

    http://www.ymcachicago.org/programs/youth-safety-and-violence-prevention-urban-warriors

    To the Rauner Administration : are these programs worth funding, or are they more valuable as “leverage”???


  46. - Katich Walker, Jr. - Wednesday, Aug 31, 16 @ 6:08 pm:

    First try ending drug prohibition.

    Recall the gang violence during alcohol prohibition.


  47. - Railrat - Wednesday, Aug 31, 16 @ 6:11 pm:

    Kent State , May 4 , 1970


  48. - The Fool On The Hill - Wednesday, Aug 31, 16 @ 6:22 pm:

    Lt. Eric Linder of the Elgin Police Department once told me, “You can put a cop on every corner and not stop crime.”


  49. - NoGifts - Wednesday, Aug 31, 16 @ 6:36 pm:

    The militarized zone of chicago? Will it be the whole city or just certain locations? Well, they might be busy in Iraq or Afghanistan today. http://taskandpurpose.com/citizen-soldier-tells-story-national-guard-units-hellish-afghan-deployment/


  50. - Payback - Thursday, Sep 1, 16 @ 12:03 am:

    Rich- I visited a nice little museum on an Army Natl. Guard base close to Springfield a few years ago. They had life size diorama exhibits depicting Army life in different eras. This may be the MP unit you mention. All the vehicles in the lot were sand color, not green, so I assumed they had been to Iraq.

    They had a nice bookstore with some donated stuff and some new. I bought a book “Patrolling Baghdad” which I have not read yet. Maybe this book is about the unit you worked with?


  51. - downstater - Thursday, Sep 1, 16 @ 7:59 am:

    I agree with Rauner. However, for those of you afraid of the NG shooting someone, I don’t think they would be armed. They weren’t armed in Ferguson and the surrounding communities.


  52. - Former State Employee - Thursday, Sep 1, 16 @ 9:09 am:

    Based on my experiences, if we moved all of the hundreds of State policeman on non road duty and sent them to help in Chicago that would be a start. Not sure that would solve the problem, but it’s a better idea than the National Guard.


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