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Pritzker and Biss spar over pension issue again

Thursday, Feb 22, 2018

* SJ-R coverage of last night’s forum

Pritzker criticized Biss for voting for the 2013 pension reform legislation that was later declared unconstitutional by the Illinois Supreme Court, saying it contradicts his “middle class” governor narrative.

“Dan Biss introduced a bill that took pensions away from 450,000 workers across the state, including teachers and nurses. And I don’t think that’s good for the middle class,” Pritzker said. “It’s a contract we make with those folks, and it’s time we stand up to the plate and pay what’s owed to them.”

Biss said the vote was a mistake that he has since learned from, but shot back at Pritzker for donating money to a political action committee that also received contributions from Gov. Bruce Rauner and that pushed the pension reform bill.

“I was a legislator in early 2011 when there was a huge budget crisis,” Biss said. “I was trying my best and fell for a false choice on what this problem was. I’ve learned that lesson, and that lesson is visible in my voting record for years since that time.”

* Pritzker campaign press release during last night’s forum…

Despite using We Mean Business PAC as a talking point, Dan Biss cashed two checks totaling $15,000 from the very same organization. Those contributions came as Biss was writing and passing the unconstitutional pension bill that cut benefits for 467,000 teachers, university workers, and state employees. Since the bill was blocked by the Illinois Supreme Court, Biss has taken heat for his “flip-flop” as he tries to back away from the same bill he wrote.

REALITY CHECK:

    After flip-flopping on pensions at the Crain’s editorial board, Biss was asked, “if you can so completely change your opinion on something you spent so much time and energy on, what can people trust you not to change your opinion on?”

    Dan Biss received two contributions totaling $15,000 from We Mean Business PAC.

    Biss “helped write” and led efforts to pass the pension bill that was ruled unconstitutional by the Supreme Court and cut pension benefits promised to over 467,000 state workers.

    While Biss attacks JB for donating to We Mean Business PAC, the donation came two years before Biss authored the unconstitutional pension bill.

The campaign also released a video clip of Pritzker talking about this topic

* Biss campaign…

At tonight’s Illinois Democratic candidate forum hosted by the State Journal-Register, WMAY and the University of Illinois in Springfield, the Pritzker panic continued as JB Pritzker recycled his sloppy attacks against Daniel Biss.

Let’s check the facts.

Pritzker Panics on Pensions

JB Pritzker brought up Daniel Biss’ record on pensions. Pritzker neglected to mention that he funded the pro-business PAC that lobbied for a far more extreme bill.

Pritzker donated $20,000 to the We Mean Business PAC, which supported the passage of SB512, a bill designed to benefit wealthy business people over workers. Daniel Biss voted against this legislation despite Pritzker’s PAC’s pressure.

“Pensions are a promise, and I’ve been very open about my record on this issue, and what I’ve learned about it,” said Daniel Biss during the debate. “I was a legislator in early 2011 when there was a huge budget crisis. I was trying my best and fell for a false choice about the right way to solve this problem. I’ve learned that lesson, and that lesson has been visible in my voting record for years since that time. As governor, I’m going to pass fair tax policies to fund our pensions and make sure we can guarantee them.

“What I want to say about the breathtaking hypocrisy of JB Pritzker, my god, what was he doing? At that same time that I was doing something that I’ve said I learned a lesson from, he was funding a right wing organization that was attacking me from the right and trying to do away with pensions altogether. He hasn’t said he learned a lesson, he hasn’t acknowledged it, he hasn’t admitted it. It’s pure hypocrisy, it’s a failure of leadership.”

Daniel Biss has addressed his role in passing SB1 and acknowledged his error. He has explained his reasoning, the lessons he learned from it, and how his approach to the issue has changed. JB Pritzker has not.

- Posted by Rich Miller        

107 Comments
  1. - Dozer - Thursday, Feb 22, 18 @ 10:07 am:

    why are politicians apologizing for trying to fix the issue which is slowly squeezing the life out of state government?


  2. - SSL - Thursday, Feb 22, 18 @ 10:11 am:

    Biss is in a no win position on pensions. The pensioners will never forgive or trust him. The rest of the state isn’t too excited to hear him say he wants to raise taxes to guarantee the pensions are paid.

    Try to please everyone and you end up pleasing nobody.


  3. - SaulGoodman - Thursday, Feb 22, 18 @ 10:12 am:

    **While Biss attacks JB for donating to We Mean Business PAC, the donation came two years before Biss authored the unconstitutional pension bill.**

    So… JB wants us all to know that he was trying to cut pensions before Daniel?


  4. - Honeybear - Thursday, Feb 22, 18 @ 10:14 am:

    No Dan
    That’s perfidy
    You championed
    “A false choice”
    You sheparded through the process
    “A false choice”
    You debated and caucused for
    “A false choice”
    You are relying on the fact
    That few understand
    The titanic effort of pushing
    Any bill
    Let alone one a important as this
    All the way through.
    No sir
    Perfidy
    Own your vote
    Own your advocacy
    Own your tireless work
    Against labor

    And know
    We will never trust you

    No permanent friends
    No permanent enemies
    Only permanent interests


  5. - Grandson of Man - Thursday, Feb 22, 18 @ 10:15 am:

    I looked to see if Biss helped pass the Tier 2 pension reform bill, but I didn’t see him as one of the GA members then. His admitting the mistake of supporting SB 1 is acceptable to me, given who he would face this November. Context means the world to me.


  6. - City Zen - Thursday, Feb 22, 18 @ 10:15 am:

    @Dozer - That’s the $130B question.


  7. - Big Joe - Thursday, Feb 22, 18 @ 10:22 am:

    I totally agree with Honeybear. Biss can’t be trusted after all the work he did on drafting that pension bill that even Stevie Wonder could see was unconstitutional.


  8. - Anonymous - Thursday, Feb 22, 18 @ 10:23 am:

    Biss will never be able to escape the disastrous pension theft bill he touted. THe Supremes have ruled. The debt and pensions must be paid. Where’s the candidate who will address how that happens? As the debt continues to climb every single day………….


  9. - Sue - Thursday, Feb 22, 18 @ 10:27 am:

    So what is the Big Guys pension plan?


  10. - JS Mill - Thursday, Feb 22, 18 @ 10:28 am:

    So you were fooled? Not buying it.

    Biss is an intelligent person.

    I sat in on a pension presentation and Biss was one of the speakers. He was very knowledgeable and very clear on his thoughts. This is his attempt to rewrite the narrative and a lot of people will not buy it.


  11. - JS Mill - Thursday, Feb 22, 18 @ 10:29 am:

    =@Dozer - That’s the $130B question.=

    Not really, the ILSC answered the “question”.

    Their answer- you have to pay your debts.


  12. - Sue - Thursday, Feb 22, 18 @ 10:31 am:

    Big Joe. Then there must be a lot of blind folks in the legislature. I kind of trembler the bill having a lot of bipartisan support


  13. - m - Thursday, Feb 22, 18 @ 10:34 am:

    =We will never trust you=

    I know there are Klonsky fans here, he seems to have a more reasonable take on this. https://preaprez.wordpress.com/2018/02/02/jb-on-pensions-is-shameless/

    Why can you never trust Biss who said he made a mistake, but JB can be the union darling despite the fact that he was helping to fund exactly what Biss was doing, and hasn’t apologized for his role?

    JB can get the union endorsements, but Biss needs to be hated for his role?

    They were of the same belief at the same time. It wouldn’t be inaccurate to say that to some degree JB was paying Biss to push pension reform.

    I’m just not following the logic of the union Biss haters here.


  14. - Ron - Thursday, Feb 22, 18 @ 10:36 am:

    IL will be destroyed by the public employee union incestuous relationship with IL pols.


  15. - Sue - Thursday, Feb 22, 18 @ 10:37 am:

    Given the current composition of the S Court- Illinois has two options - raise taxes and/or cut taxes. All of you union types support raising taxes required to pay the pension bill but when it comes to cutting state spending all of you scream like greased pigs. Most of you don’t care about the States future as long as your benefits and yourState Jobs are secure. Sorry but it appears to be true otherwise we would have had an AFSCME contract in 2017


  16. - SaulGoodman - Thursday, Feb 22, 18 @ 10:58 am:

    **Given the current composition of the S Court- Illinois has two options - raise taxes and/or cut taxes. **

    Sigh… It has nothing to do with the composition of the Supreme Court. It has to do with the composition of the State Constitution.


  17. - Whatever - Thursday, Feb 22, 18 @ 10:58 am:

    ==@Dozer - That’s the $130B question. ==

    A quick google search finds a web sites that report total Illinois liabilities, all of which show outstanding bond debt greater than the unfunded pension debt. When are you going to start suggesting we stiff the bondholders?


  18. - Maximus - Thursday, Feb 22, 18 @ 11:10 am:

    Biss shouldn’t apologize for anything. He saw a giant problem and tried to help craft a solution to the problem. JB doesn’t even have a record to run on of doing anything in elected office.


  19. - City Zen - Thursday, Feb 22, 18 @ 11:11 am:

    @Whatever - In your foray into the dark webs, did you stumble across retiree healthcare liabilities?


  20. - TinyDancer(FKASue) - Thursday, Feb 22, 18 @ 11:27 am:

    =When are you going to start suggesting we stiff the bondholders?=

    When hell freezes over.


  21. - Shemp - Thursday, Feb 22, 18 @ 11:27 am:

    Biss is anti-middle class and Ives is Madigan’s best friend this side of the aisle.

    These campaigns are insulting my intelligence.


  22. - Shemp - Thursday, Feb 22, 18 @ 11:28 am:

    Has a third party announced so I can vote with a clear conscience?


  23. - Smitty Irving - Thursday, Feb 22, 18 @ 11:34 am:

    Sue -
    State spending, other than the Pension Ramp, *has* been cut. The State’s Annual Financial Report shows there were 87 thousand State employees in 2002, the last year before the ERI, and 62 thousand in 2016. That’s nearly a 30% *cut* …


  24. - Anon - Thursday, Feb 22, 18 @ 11:42 am:

    -their answer - you have to pay your debt-

    Unless you decide not to make an appropriation.


  25. - Ron - Thursday, Feb 22, 18 @ 12:10 pm:

    Cut every single state employee and hire a third party employer to run the government. All future benefits removed in one single stroke.


  26. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Feb 22, 18 @ 12:14 pm:

    ===Cut every single state employee and hire a third party employer to run the government. All future benefits removed in one single stroke.===

    - Ron -, go take a nap, go for a walk, paint, sculpt, write poetry…

    I’m not engaging you, reading your silliness…


  27. - Jocko - Thursday, Feb 22, 18 @ 12:20 pm:

    ==Cut every single state employee and hire a third party employer==

    Rauner tried that with his staff in July, it didn’t go well.


  28. - 2 cents - Thursday, Feb 22, 18 @ 12:29 pm:

    My 2 cents - What I’d like to see is a candidate that acknowledges the IL Supreme Court rulings and IL Constitution that protects the pensions and health care of retirees and then puts forth a plan that leaves these alone and works to get the state into a better financial position going forward. This person would get my vote.


  29. - TinyDancer(FKASue) - Thursday, Feb 22, 18 @ 12:41 pm:

    =In your foray into the dark webs, did you stumble across retiree healthcare liabilities?=

    Yes…..those selfish greedy public retirees always wanting affordable healthcare.


  30. - Pyrman - Thursday, Feb 22, 18 @ 12:52 pm:

    @Dozer—it wasn’t that Biss supported an unconstitutional plan, he supported a plan that made only 400k state employees and retirees pay for the fix when those 400k had paid every dime into the pension that was required. How was that fair?


  31. - revvedup - Thursday, Feb 22, 18 @ 1:01 pm:

    Can ANY of our gubernatorial candidates truly be trusted?? Biss mea culpa sounds genuine, but HoneyBear’s analysis raises serious issues. JB has convenient amnesia about his harsher proposals, which would also have been found unconstitutional.


  32. - m - Thursday, Feb 22, 18 @ 1:01 pm:

    =@Dozer—it wasn’t that Biss supported an unconstitutional plan, he supported a plan that made only 400k state employees and retirees pay for the fix when those 400k had paid every dime into the pension that was required. How was that fair?=

    And it was Pritzker pouring money into that same effort.

    So you’re voting for Kennedy? Daiber?


  33. - City Zen - Thursday, Feb 22, 18 @ 1:19 pm:

    ==Yes…..those selfish greedy public retirees always wanting affordable healthcare.==

    Just know that if you hide, it doesn’t go away


  34. - Whatever - Thursday, Feb 22, 18 @ 1:22 pm:

    ==@Whatever - In your foray into the dark webs, did you stumble across retiree healthcare liabilities? ==
    Yep. When you add in retiree healthcare, you come up with an amount that is about the same as the outstanding bonds. But you miss my point - these are all contracted debts the state owes for value given. Why are you only talking about reneging debts to retirees?


  35. - Demoralized - Thursday, Feb 22, 18 @ 1:37 pm:

    ==to pay the pension bill ==

    Not a fan of honoring contracts are you? Forgive people for asking to be paid what they are owed.

    ==t appears to be true otherwise we would have had an AFSCME contract in 2017==

    No competent negotiator would ever agree to the terms the state was asking for. Why in the world would anyone ever agree to a salary freeze and doubling the cost of healthcare?


  36. - Demoralized - Thursday, Feb 22, 18 @ 1:39 pm:

    ==Cut every single state employee and hire a third party employer to run the government. ==

    Did you forget to get your medication refilled? You need to go lie down before you hurt yourself.


  37. - Whatever - Thursday, Feb 22, 18 @ 2:04 pm:

    ==Why in the world would anyone ever agree to a salary freeze and doubling the cost of healthcare? ==

    Not to mention deleting the provision in the old contract that would allow outsourcing of union jobs only if it would save money. I am not a union member and never have been, but this is an outrageous ask. It’s an open invitation to rob the state treasury for pinstripe patronage, while crippling the union’s bargaining power. As a taxpayer I find it far more objectionable than anything AFSCME is asking for.


  38. - dbk - Thursday, Feb 22, 18 @ 2:04 pm:

    2 cents

    Just to add my 2 cents to yours, I’d vote for a candidate like the one you describe also.

    At the moment, the only thought I have about the gubernatorial campaign/next eight months of this sort of goings-on is “Let’s call the whole thing off.”

    All three Dem front-runners have shown themselves to be flawed in significant ways.

    As for the current governor and his opponent…


  39. - Ron - Thursday, Feb 22, 18 @ 2:19 pm:

    - 2 cents - Thursday, Feb 22, 18 @ 12:29 pm:

    Those are some massive spending cuts


  40. - Ron - Thursday, Feb 22, 18 @ 2:20 pm:

    No one is owed anything for work not provided. Future benefits should and must be cut.


  41. - Arthur Andersen - Thursday, Feb 22, 18 @ 2:21 pm:

    As an aside, anyone catch Wacky Bob Marshall’s tout that the “3 state solution” eliminates the pension funding problem?

    Yep, when he carves the State up, he plans to just write off all the Illinois liabilities. Brilliant.


  42. - Demoralized - Thursday, Feb 22, 18 @ 2:30 pm:

    Ron:

    It’s a contractual obligation that attaches when you enter the system. I think the Supreme Court made that clear.


  43. - Ron - Thursday, Feb 22, 18 @ 2:37 pm:

    Illinois has had the worst politicians for so long. How can you promise something to someone they haven’t even earned?


  44. - Demoralized - Thursday, Feb 22, 18 @ 2:39 pm:

    ==How can you promise something to someone they haven’t even earned?==

    You’re not real good with the concept of a contract are you?


  45. - Anonymous - Thursday, Feb 22, 18 @ 2:47 pm:

    ==You’re not real good with the concept of a contract are you?==

    Not having the money to pay for a contract might be a problem too…


  46. - Sue - Thursday, Feb 22, 18 @ 2:57 pm:

    Demoralized- as long as the pensions and retiree health care are your priority you can’t have everything else. Face it raising taxes again will be real hard no matter who gets elected


  47. - Whatever - Thursday, Feb 22, 18 @ 3:06 pm:

    =Demoralized- as long as the pensions and retiree health care are your priority you can’t have everything else. Face it raising taxes again will be real hard no matter who gets elected ==

    Fine. Then default on the state’s bonds. Problems solved.


  48. - Sue - Thursday, Feb 22, 18 @ 3:07 pm:

    Whatever- you do understand that under the constitution the bonds have priority even over pension obligations.


  49. - RNUG - Thursday, Feb 22, 18 @ 3:09 pm:

    == when he carves the State up, he plans to just write off all the Illinois liabilities. ==

    Bonds too?

    That should make for some future financing challenges for the 3 new states.


  50. - Anonymous - Thursday, Feb 22, 18 @ 3:13 pm:

    ===No one is owed anything for work not provided===

    Fine, then pay them per contract per “when” and “if” the work is provided.


  51. - Six Degrees of Separation - Thursday, Feb 22, 18 @ 3:14 pm:

    3:13 is I.


  52. - Demoralized - Thursday, Feb 22, 18 @ 3:16 pm:

    ==are your priority==

    It’s not a matter of priority its a matter of paying what you owe. The state doesn’t seem to be real good at honoring it’s contractual obligations. Look at the past few years with the budget situation. Services provided not paid for.


  53. - Arthur Andersen - Thursday, Feb 22, 18 @ 3:16 pm:

    RNUG, I don’t know if he’s thought that far ahead. I wouldn’t bet lunch on it.


  54. - City Zen - Thursday, Feb 22, 18 @ 3:16 pm:

    ==How can you promise something to someone they haven’t even earned?==

    Ron, when a govt body hires someone in Illinois, they enter into a 35 year contract. Whatever benefits assumption was made Day 1 must be applied Day 2 or Year 35, Day 1. You would know this is you ever applied the knowledge you gained from all the 35-year contracts you’ve entered into in your lifetime.


  55. - Sue - Thursday, Feb 22, 18 @ 3:19 pm:

    It may be politically unpopular and most of you will disagree but someday perhaps 10 plus years from now- the pension obligations will be cut. Arithmetic is a funny thing- revenues and outgoing payments need to match up and as the number of retirees increase as will the COLA Illinois just won’t have the capacity to fully honor the liabilities. My guess is that some future Democratic President and Congress will come up with federal guarantees for the several states in the soup but the deal will require significant reductions in the liabilities. As a federal program, it won’t matter what state law requires since the supremacy clause will trump state law. There is no way that Illinois CT CA MD etc will be able to fully satisfy their pension hit- the obligations are growing much faster then their revenues will be able to resolve and unless those states abandon every other state obligation, there will be the need for federal assistance which will trigger the haircuts akin to what happens with the PBGC


  56. - Rich Miller - Thursday, Feb 22, 18 @ 3:22 pm:

    Sue, please look up the ramp schedule.


  57. - TinyDancer(FKASue) - Thursday, Feb 22, 18 @ 3:40 pm:

    =Cut every single state employee and hire a third party employer to run the government. All future benefits removed in one single stroke.=

    So, you know of a third party employer who is transparent about what they do with your money and how they treat their employees, doesn’t claim “attorney/client privilege” in answer to every question, and doesn’t put their own over-the-top profit above all else?


  58. - Six Degrees of Separation - Thursday, Feb 22, 18 @ 3:57 pm:

    ===as the number of retirees increase as will the COLA Illinois just won’t have the capacity to fully honor the liabilities===

    The pool of Tier 1 employees, retirees and spouses with benefits is fixed and decreases every time one dies. Paying their pensions is a large problem but a finite one.


  59. - Ron - Thursday, Feb 22, 18 @ 4:17 pm:

    City Zen, so funny yet so sad.


  60. - Ron - Thursday, Feb 22, 18 @ 4:20 pm:

    “what they do with your money and how they treat their employees”

    Who cares? As long as they follow the laws all other private employers follow.


  61. - RNUG - Thursday, Feb 22, 18 @ 4:36 pm:

    == you do understand that under the constitution the bonds have priority even over pension obligations. ==

    I don’t believe the courts have addressed that issue. And, given the looseness of the courts interpretation on the school funding and some other issues, I wouldn’t bet on it one way or the other.

    So, for right now, I would just say they are equal in that both are contracts.


  62. - RNUG - Thursday, Feb 22, 18 @ 4:44 pm:

    == As a federal program, it won’t matter what state law requires since the supremacy clause will trump state law. ==

    So, the Feds are going to negate the Federal Contracts Clause? In the case of Illinois (and New York and Arizona)know, that is what would have to happen.

    The minute you start tampering with Federal Contract Law (the basis of all commerce), you will be endangering every contract everywhere. So the Feds are going to destroy capitalism over a short term financial problem?


  63. - Ron - Thursday, Feb 22, 18 @ 4:52 pm:

    “So the Feds are going to destroy capitalism over a short term financial problem?”

    Nah, but they’ll probably allow states to rework obligations that are impossible to fulfill. BK would be nice.


  64. - Anon324 - Thursday, Feb 22, 18 @ 4:59 pm:

    =Nah, but they’ll probably allow states to rework obligations that are impossible to fulfill. BK would be nice.=

    States cannot declare bankruptcy.


  65. - Adam - Thursday, Feb 22, 18 @ 5:04 pm:

    States will be allowed to declare bankruptcy in the future because math and reality will force them to allow it in time. Things change because often they have to. The end.


  66. - JS Mill - Thursday, Feb 22, 18 @ 5:05 pm:

    @Ron- you are neither an expert in law or economics. The ILSC has made a decision on pensions. Give it a read.

    Two- in your fairy tale hundereds of thousands (nearly half a million)of voters and taxpayers lose their earned income. Not much of a boost to the economy. Good plan. /s


  67. - JS Mill - Thursday, Feb 22, 18 @ 5:09 pm:

    @Ron- in addition, changing future pensions would not even make a dent in the bill. The vast majority of the cost is due to debt, $$6.5 billion or more. And that has to be paid no matter what. Any other system would actually cost the state and schools more.

    Again, you are a real tactician.


  68. - Anon324 - Thursday, Feb 22, 18 @ 5:15 pm:

    =States will be allowed to declare bankruptcy in the future because math and reality will force them to allow it in time. Things change because often they have to. The end.=

    So it is your position that the federal government will change bankruptcy law for the few states like Illinois that have constitutional clauses that bind their hands? And that the Supreme Court will agree that such a change passes constitutional muster? That’s a pretty big assumption, especially when there are other options available.


  69. - Niklas - Thursday, Feb 22, 18 @ 5:30 pm:

    No, states will never be able to declare bankruptcy. Bamkruptcy means your supply of funding is not there. Nobody likes taxes, but the reality is states can tax so they can’t declare bankruptcy.


  70. - TinyDancer(FKASue) - Thursday, Feb 22, 18 @ 5:44 pm:

    @Ron
    =Who cares? =
    Careful….your mask is slipping….
    …or is this a striptease?


  71. - Ron - Thursday, Feb 22, 18 @ 5:48 pm:

    What mask?


  72. - Ron - Thursday, Feb 22, 18 @ 5:50 pm:

    changing benefits that haven’t been earned would be a huge lift off the taxpayers wallet


  73. - TinyDancer(FKASue) - Thursday, Feb 22, 18 @ 5:50 pm:

    @Sue
    =as the number of retirees increase as will the COLA Illinois just won’t have the capacity to fully honor the liabilities.=

    Maybe you’ll get lucky and we’ll have a few rounds of hyperinflation.
    Complaining about a 3% COLA when future interest rates are an unknown is an exercise in futility. Find something more productive to focus on.


  74. - Anonymous - Thursday, Feb 22, 18 @ 5:51 pm:

    It happens all the time in the private sector even social security


  75. - TinyDancer(FKASue) - Thursday, Feb 22, 18 @ 5:56 pm:

    @Ron
    =What mask?=

    You seem so concerned about how your money is being spent.


  76. - JS Mill - Thursday, Feb 22, 18 @ 6:15 pm:

    =changing benefits that haven’t been earned would be a huge lift off the taxpayers wallet=

    Numbers? Didn’t think so.


  77. - Anonymous - Thursday, Feb 22, 18 @ 6:18 pm:

    I believe that in the Supreme Court ruling it was mentioned that this problem was one of the state’s own making and that there are ways to address paying down the debt. Their implication is that we do have options.

    The problem is that many people choose not to look at working at a solution that will take some time, but solves the problem nonetheless. Rather, some have a hairtrigger response–impulsive tendencies and want to wash their hand of the problem pronto.

    The state methodically created this hole over decades. It won’t be remedied in a flash.


  78. - TinyDancer(FKASue) - Thursday, Feb 22, 18 @ 6:43 pm:

    =there are ways to address paying down the debt=

    Yeah…..It’s called a graduated income tax.


  79. - DBC - Thursday, Feb 22, 18 @ 7:09 pm:

    Quinn & Biss fuax populists chartlatans ’til the end.


  80. - Anonymous - Thursday, Feb 22, 18 @ 7:18 pm:

    ==Yeah……..It’s called a graduated income tax

    Are you sure that even if that came to fruition, monies would actually be paid toward the debt or would we find somewhere, anywhere else to apply that revenue just like the past 70 years?


  81. - Sue - Thursday, Feb 22, 18 @ 7:38 pm:

    Illinois is already one of the highest taxed states when you include real estate and asked taxes. More taxation will drive more people out and discourage employment creation. States which recently experimented with either progressive taxes(CT) or a millionaire tax(MD) learned that if actually drove high earners out. The recent tax increase is not generating sufficient revenue- Illinois needs to reduce spending and the one place it could start is forcing public employees to shoulder more of their benefit costs. If they want to leave the state -God bless


  82. - Sue - Thursday, Feb 22, 18 @ 7:39 pm:

    Sales taxes


  83. - Anonymous - Thursday, Feb 22, 18 @ 7:57 pm:

    “m - Thursday, Feb 22, 18 @ 10:34 am:”

    You never listen

    It has been said here many times

    Biss votes for it and broke his Constitutional duty. PERIOD

    Pritzker did not vote for it.


  84. - TinyDancer(FKASue) - Thursday, Feb 22, 18 @ 8:00 pm:

    =Are you sure…monies would actually be paid toward the debt…=

    State Supreme Court was not very sympathetic to that kind of subterfuge. They’ll have lots of ’splainin’ to do.


  85. - City Zen - Thursday, Feb 22, 18 @ 8:21 pm:

    ==Yeah…..It’s called a graduated income tax.==

    On retirement income? Never took you for the type, but I like your thinking.

    ==Sales taxes==

    Sue, be honest, Illinois could stand to tax a few services.


  86. - Anonymous - Thursday, Feb 22, 18 @ 8:31 pm:

    DBC - Thursday, Feb 22, 18 @ 7:09 pm:

    Thanks


  87. - Anonymous - Thursday, Feb 22, 18 @ 8:32 pm:

    RNUG

    Thanks


  88. - TakingsAllowed? - Thursday, Feb 22, 18 @ 9:32 pm:

    http://media.ca1.uscourts.gov/pdf.opinions/17-1293P-01A.pdf
    The U.S. Court of Appeals for the First Circuit dealt with a reduction in pension benefits in Rhode Island that the pensioners asserted were “vested and contractual rights” and that the reduction in benefits violated the Contracts Clause of the U.S. Constitution (along with the Takings and Due Process Clause). The 1st Circuit ruled against the unions and allowed the retroactive change in benefits. This decision makes me question whether the federal courts would find a retroactive change in pension benefits violates the Contracts Clause of the U.S. Constitution. At this point, the pension clause of the Illinois Constitution prevents such a change, but those that believe the federal courts will find a Contracts Clause violation should review this case.


  89. - Ron - Thursday, Feb 22, 18 @ 9:46 pm:

    Thanks Takingsallowed, very promising


  90. - anon - Thursday, Feb 22, 18 @ 9:48 pm:

    Sue no matter how you try to rationalize it your going to have to help pay for the debt (state employees pensions)that was used to subsidize the low tax rate you have taken advantage of all these years


  91. - RNUG - Thursday, Feb 22, 18 @ 10:02 pm:

    One minor difference in the Rhode Island case. The union tried to claim it was an implied contract, not an explicitly declared one. The decision spends a lot of time and citations on the lack of a clear declaration by the Legislature to enter into a contract.

    The Illinois Pension Clause is crystal clear that the intent for pensions IS thea contract; that simple declaration makes a big difference.


  92. - illinois manufacturer - Friday, Feb 23, 18 @ 12:44 am:

    Also there may be a contract but it may be with a fund that can go broke. I think that was the case in Ohio where unions and Kasich worked out a cuts plus better funding. In Illinois it is clearly spelled out as a contractwith the state itself which is not broke and cannot go broke. You lost pension trolls . I read the Russian troll farm is still operating I am sure they can find plenty of other divisive issues you can spew your venom on.


  93. - Demoralized - Friday, Feb 23, 18 @ 7:41 am:

    ==forcing public employees to shoulder more of their benefit costs==

    It’s easy to tell others to do that isn’t it?

    ==If they want to leave the state -God bless==

    Very adult Sue.

    You really need to get a life Sue.


  94. - Demoralized - Friday, Feb 23, 18 @ 7:42 am:

    ==very promising==

    The fact that you get so giddy about taking away the pensions of others says a lot about your character Ron.


  95. - Hieronymus - Friday, Feb 23, 18 @ 8:24 am:

    >

    All the more reason to just bond out the pension debt and get it over with.


  96. - HangingOn - Friday, Feb 23, 18 @ 8:55 am:

    I keep picturing Sue and Ron at the grocery store demanding they cut the cashier’s pay so they can pay less for their Frosted Flakes. I don’t know why…


  97. - Ron - Friday, Feb 23, 18 @ 9:22 am:

    “low tax rate”

    What? Illinois has one of the highest tax burdens in the nation.


  98. - Ron - Friday, Feb 23, 18 @ 9:24 am:

    “It’s called a graduated income tax.”

    Sure, if we eliminate pensions for all public employees and break public sector unions, I’m all for progressive income taxes.


  99. - Demoralized - Friday, Feb 23, 18 @ 9:30 am:

    Do you feel better about yourself by hating on public employees?


  100. - City Zen - Friday, Feb 23, 18 @ 9:30 am:

    ==I keep picturing Sue and Ron at the grocery store demanding they cut the cashier’s pay so they can pay less for their Frosted Flakes. I don’t know why…==

    Probably because you are not aware of coupons.


  101. - former southerner - Friday, Feb 23, 18 @ 9:34 am:

    If misery loves company then Ron and Sue are the ultimate soulmates.


  102. - Ron - Friday, Feb 23, 18 @ 9:51 am:

    I’m actually extremely happy in life. I have a wonderful family, a gorgeous home in a beautiful neighhorhood. I can pick up and move if needed as Illinois circles the drain.

    Illinois should be booming, but decades of public sector coddling by an incestuous political class has virtually destroyed the state. We have one of the highest tax burdens in the nation and get very little for it. People are fleeing, when we should be gaining people.


  103. - Ron - Friday, Feb 23, 18 @ 9:55 am:

    Public sector workers should get fair pay and benefits. Not bizzaro things that exist for no one else.


  104. - Ron - Friday, Feb 23, 18 @ 10:31 am:

    “It’s easy to tell others to do that isn’t it?”

    Private sector taxpayers are beyond fed up with the outrageous tax burden in Illinois.


  105. - TionyDancer(FKASue) - Friday, Feb 23, 18 @ 11:45 am:

    @Ron
    =What? Illinois has one of the highest tax burdens in the nation.=

    Chicago-based Better Government Association:

    “On a per capita basis, no state government employs fewer people than Illinois. No state picks up a smaller percentage of local education bills (and) per patient Medicaid spending is well below national norms.”


  106. - TinyDancer(FKASue) - Friday, Feb 23, 18 @ 11:56 am:

    =Public sector workers should get fair pay and benefits. Not bizzaro things that exist for no one else.=

    Libertarian Goal: pensions and retiree healthcare for no middle class workers

    Step 1: Cut private sector pensions and retiree healthcare benefits
    Step 2: Foment anger and envy because public sector employees still have pensions and healthcare (and you suckers are paying for it)

    Solution:
    Restore private sector defined benefit pensions (the 401k just ain’t cuttin’ it)
    and
    Universal healthcare


  107. - Ron - Friday, Feb 23, 18 @ 3:43 pm:

    “On a per capita basis, no state government employs fewer people than Illinois. No state picks up a smaller percentage of local education bills (and) per patient Medicaid spending is well below national norms.”

    Yep, and we still have one of the highest tax burdens in the nation. Those are some coddled workers we have.


Sorry, comments for this post are now closed.


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