93 Comments - TheInvisibleMan - Wednesday, Jan 5, 22 @ 9:36 am: = But, to those who want to write the Republicans off forever, I implore you to reconsider. = The last republican I voted for in Illinois was Tom Cross. Last year I wrote off the republican party forever. After watching the past year of the party continuing to not just ignore this problem within itself, but actually continue to encourage it and punishing its own members who speak out against this, I am satisfied with my decision to write off the republican party forever. McConchie still doesn’t grasp the level of emptiness of his words. This very much reminds me of my disconnecting from the catholic church after 2 decades. Simply parroting words of how bad child abuse is, is meaningless if out the other side you are still taking the actions of protecting the criminals within your ranks. I didn’t fail to notice the republican caucus issuing a censure of its own members. The republican party simply failed to issue any of them. - sal-says - Wednesday, Jan 5, 22 @ 9:46 am: Sound thinking & advice from McConchie & Kinzinger. Too bad they are such a minority in the #GQP. Sad. Need lots more leaders like them! - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Jan 5, 22 @ 9:47 am: Let’s be crystal clear, no ambiguity; McConchie did not call out the insurrectionists. It’s important to note that. McConchie did not call out the insurrectionists. That’s real. That’s honest. ===In the year since the devastating attack on our nation’s Capitol, I am sadly reminded of the divisive political culture that Americans have come to expect. However, we can once again become the American people that respect and value one another, no matter our differences. As I stated following last year’s attack, ‘We need every citizen, from every corner of the state, and every background to work together to solve our state’s problems by empowering the people rather than the political elite or the well-connected.’=== “… rather than the political elite or the well-connected.” All this does is tell the racists, conspiracy theorists, *AND* the insurrectionists… “Yes, you may be paranoid, but it doesn’t mean folks aren’t out to get you” Either be Kinzinger or fully embrace the radical and dangerous elements that have hijacked the party. By merely reading the words of McConchie, I see how much further the ILGOP needs to go. - Grandson of Man - Wednesday, Jan 5, 22 @ 9:50 am: Excellent piece and statement by the leader. The ingredients for more trouble however appear to be ample, as many GOP voters support Jan. 6 and Trump, and believe the election was stolen. This didn’t happen overnight. Many Republicans went nuts when Obama was elected, doubting his citizenship and legitimacy. Trump was one of the prominent Obama conspiracists. - Hahaha - Wednesday, Jan 5, 22 @ 9:55 am: OW - Real people with real opinions, feelings, backgrounds, and histories don’t fit into the arbitrary binary of the extremes you, oh wise one, constructed. You just set up nonsensical litmus tests to make excuses for your Democrat cheerleading on this forum. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Jan 5, 22 @ 9:59 am: === Real people with real opinions, feelings, backgrounds, and histories don’t fit into the arbitrary binary of the extremes you=== … and *THAT* is exactly how you excuse an insurrection by extremists, that believe in conspiracy theories… with racist underpinning. Thanks. Appreciate you yelling me more about you. Lemme guess, a real “alternative facts” kind of person too? - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Jan 5, 22 @ 10:00 am: === your Democrat cheerleading=== That only works if you believe that a Republican insurrection is a litmus test to be welcomed by you. I’d go to bed and start your day over. - Give Me A Break - Wednesday, Jan 5, 22 @ 10:05 am: Every single candidate for every office should be asked two question as soon as they announce. 1. Did Joe Biden win the election. 2. Do you totally reject and condemn the actions of those who attacked the US Capital on January 6th? Anyone that does not answer Yes to either question, is not fit to hold office at any level. - Homebody - Wednesday, Jan 5, 22 @ 10:05 am: I’m with OW on this one. He isn’t calling out the insurrectionists. He is “both sides”ing and using tons of passive voice. Make no mistake, only one side has been actively fomenting discord and calling out their political opponents as enemies of the people. Only one side stormed the Capitol when they didn’t like the outcome of an election. Only one side has been pushing conspiracy theories as part and parcel of their party platform. Regardless of what you think of the ILGOP or national GOP policy platforms (which are also terrible and not fact-based, but that is a separate issue), we are where we are entirely because well-moneyed interests thought whipping their base into a crazy furor was the best way to get the tax cuts and business regulation roll backs that they wanted. The GOP created this problem entirely. They need to do more to fix it, or they need to get out of the way. - BTO2 - Wednesday, Jan 5, 22 @ 10:13 am: At least Senator McConchie acknowledged the terrorists vs some who believe 01/06 was nothing more than a guided tour. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Jan 5, 22 @ 10:17 am: === At least…=== That bar keeps getting lower and lower to calling out the real to January 6th… while not “offending” the “GOP Base”? Words have to matter, or they don’t. With respect, and I get your point. (Tips cap to - Homebody -) - Cheryl44 - Wednesday, Jan 5, 22 @ 10:18 am: The GOP is full of traitors. I don’t know what we do about that beyond treating them as such. - allknowingmasterofraccoondom - Wednesday, Jan 5, 22 @ 10:23 am: Leave it to OW to find something, anything, wrong with what Senator McChoncie has to say. Your bias is showing dude, big time. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Jan 5, 22 @ 10:27 am: === find something, anything, wrong with what Senator McChoncie has to say.=== So… === As I stated following last year’s attack, ‘We need every citizen, from every corner of the state, and every background to work together to solve our state’s problems by empowering the people rather than the political elite or the well-connected.’=== … not calling out the insurrectionists, but saying “hey, let’s blame the political elite or the well-connected” works for you as a take to the insurrection? Leave it to *you* to find a way to give the insurrectionists valid reasons to be “angry”? - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Jan 5, 22 @ 10:30 am: ===Your bias is showing=== Your covering for insurrectionists is telling… “Dude” You also realize the real differences between Kinzinger and McConchie in January 6th, and… McConchie isn’t seeing all that Kinzinger is saying. That’s not bias, that’s siding with Kinzinger on what this insurrection was, and where the party in some eyes is seemingly more important than the country. Think on this… you’re worried about a political *bias* versus what an attempted insurrection means to our country… Dude. - Tombrady - Wednesday, Jan 5, 22 @ 10:33 am: ===Either be Kinzinger or fully embrace the radical and dangerous elements that have hijacked the party.=== Completely false statement. I don’t know one R that condones what happened last January. I grew up Dem and it’s no longer my dad and grandpa’s D-think “squad”. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Jan 5, 22 @ 10:35 am: === Completely false statement.=== I’m talking about an insurrection. An insurrection. It’s not like being a lil pregnant type thinking here. “It’s ok to embrace a lil insurrection…”? Hmm. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Jan 5, 22 @ 10:37 am: === I don’t know one R that condones what happened last January.=== LOL… You aren’t talking to cult Republicans. - SWIL_Voter - Wednesday, Jan 5, 22 @ 10:38 am: == I grew up Dem and it’s no longer my dad and grandpa’s D-think “squad”.== It’s a bland moderate party of capital, slightly more socially liberal than decades ago, much more fiscally conservative. Comparing that to anything going on in the other party is pretty insane - Jocko - Wednesday, Jan 5, 22 @ 10:43 am: ==I don’t know one R that condones what happened last January.== Maybe in private…but Kinzinger and Chaney are the only ones with the courage to say it openly. You might also want to check with Illinois rep. Mary Miller. - moving forward - Wednesday, Jan 5, 22 @ 10:48 am: reading too much into mcconchie’s letter is pointless. the tin foil hat wearers will not catch the nuanced message the OW pointed out, so mcconchie will get categorized with kinzinger and cheney by the far right. the far left will recognize that the message’s nuance, and will criticize it for not being bold enough. what’s the point? pick a lane. - SWIL_Voter - Wednesday, Jan 5, 22 @ 10:54 am: == I grew up Dem and it’s no longer my dad and grandpa’s D-think “squad”.= Why would you want the party to be the same as it was before the civil rights movement? Times change. If the moderate party of capital is too extreme for you, might i suggest getting out more and talking to people? - PublicServant - Wednesday, Jan 5, 22 @ 10:58 am: McConchie’s request summary: Can’t we just all be friends and move on? ANSWER: We first need to hold the insurrectionists and their collaborators responsible. That is what the House committee investigating January 6th is doing now. Simply moving on is not conducive to showing that we will hold those traitors who attacked our Democracy, accountable. So, no, we can’t just reconcile without accountability. I’d like to hear whether he supports the house investigation into the insurrection. Until then, any Republican candidate for office is a write-off for me, unless they condemn the insurrectionists, and support those trying to investigate and prosecute them. - Matthew Dean - Wednesday, Jan 5, 22 @ 11:01 am: George Washington University has a great link on the 1/6 cases, defendants, charges, and sentencing agreements. https://extremism.gwu.edu/Capitol-Hill-Cases - Rich Miller - Wednesday, Jan 5, 22 @ 11:02 am: ===I don’t know one R that condones what happened last January. === More than half of Republicans believe the January 6 rioters were “protecting democracy,” according to a survey taken nearly one year after the violent attack on the U.S. Capitol. In an ABC/Ispos poll released Sunday, 52 percent of Republican voters said they believe the rioters were protecting American democracy, while just 45 percent said they were threatening it. Democrats, on the other hand, almost unanimously (96 percent) agreed that the rioters were threatening democracy. https://www.newsweek.com/over-half-republicans-believe-jan-6-capitol-rioters-were-protecting-democracy-poll-1664856 - Norseman - Wednesday, Jan 5, 22 @ 11:16 am: McConchie’s statement is worthless rhetoric. There is no moving on from the insurrection without accountability and truth. His statement reeks of both-sidism that does not apply when you have one side so clearly using anti-democratic and amoral means to attain and retain power. A side that continues to peddle the Big Lie and enact voter suppression laws. Only two elected GOP politicians are looking for accountability and truth, one from IL. Worse yet, they are removing bipartisan checks and balance in our electoral system to make it easier to overturn an election of opponents. McConchie’s statement was only made because he is a minority leader in a blue state trying to con voters into supporting his candidates by feigning civility and good government values. Don’t fall for it. - PublicServant - Wednesday, Jan 5, 22 @ 11:29 am: === More than half of Republicans believe the January 6 rioters were “protecting democracy,”… === And so when you run as a Republican candidate aren’t you tacitly seeking these riot supporter’s votes? - allknowingmasterofraccoondom - Wednesday, Jan 5, 22 @ 11:33 am: OW - Not excusing any insurrectionists. On that we agree - those criminals at the capital on Jan 6th were insurrectionists, in every way, there is no other way to see it, other than adding additional adjectives. The Senator’s statement is “political” in nature, but he calls them domestic terrorists, and blames the orange one for fomenting it. The statement can’t compare to Kinzinger’s (another we agree on) because it had a different purpose. Admittedly I know the senator personally, and know where he stands on the issue. - vern - Wednesday, Jan 5, 22 @ 11:38 am: “ As I stated following last year’s attack, ‘We need every citizen, from every corner of the state, and every background to work together to solve our state’s problems by empowering the people rather than the political elite or the well-connected.’ I still believe that strongly today and will continue to work to ensure our democratic system operates in a manner that values all perspectives and ensures all voices are heard.” This statement is a perfect encapsulation of the problem with today’s Republican Party. While purporting to oppose violence and support democracy, he also says that the only way we can be a democracy is if “political elites” (Illinois Democrats) are disempowered. Unless Democratic politicians are replaced by Republicans, we’re not a democracy. It’s a mug’s game. McConchie is a decent man, but this statement echoes the logic of the insurrectionists even as it supposedly rejects their actions. - Joe Bidenopolous - Wednesday, Jan 5, 22 @ 11:40 am: ===Make no mistake, only one side has been actively fomenting discord and calling out their political opponents as enemies of the people. Only one side stormed the Capitol when they didn’t like the outcome of an election. Only one side has been pushing conspiracy theories as part and parcel of their party platform.=== This is correct. And I’ll add, only one side believes the Big Lie about the election and only one side has been promoting a Big Lie about the election. McConchie’s words are worthless in light of all of that. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Jan 5, 22 @ 11:41 am: ===The Senator’s statement is “political” in nature, but he calls them domestic terrorists, and blames the orange one for fomenting it.=== So, looking at an insurrection in a political lens, as not to offend the 52% that believe the rioters were protecting American democracy? Friend, how can you agree with me here and also have this take? ===Leave it to … to find something, anything, wrong with what Senator McChoncie has to say.=== It’s an impossibility, especially when you specifically say it’s a political statement. Impossible. Let’s remember what McConchie wrote about those 52%, if reading this as it’s written… === As I stated following last year’s attack, ‘We need every citizen, from every corner of the state, and every background to work together to solve our state’s problems by empowering the people rather than the political elite or the well-connected.’=== Asking for support of those whom support the insurrection is the political, as you said, correct? If you know McConchie maybe write all he feels, not what he thinks is politically “smart”… not alienating the supporters of the insurrection. - AlfondoGonz - Wednesday, Jan 5, 22 @ 11:47 am: How any Republicans still equivocate and hem and haw about the condemnation they so richly deserved following 1/6 is beyond me. Grow up. - Blue Dog - Wednesday, Jan 5, 22 @ 11:59 am: Socialism is a threat to democracy. Storming the capitol is a threat to democracy. I would have given instructions to use lethal force to those entering the capitol. - Chicago Blue - Wednesday, Jan 5, 22 @ 11:59 am: One side think that Italian space lasers literally stole an election he received 7 million fewer votes in from Trump. The other side wants people like Elon Musk to pay more in taxes so they can lower insulin costs. The Republican Party can ask for my vote again when leaders like McConchie and McConnell will publicly state that the Republican Party needs to abandon the Trumps, the Hawleys, the Marjorie Taylor Greens and the Mary Millers. - SWIL_Voter - Wednesday, Jan 5, 22 @ 12:00 pm: So many comments touch on the big issue without explicitly saying it. To adequately place oneself on the side of morality and truth makes one totally unelectable in today’s GOP in the overwhelmingly vast majority of this country. Of course his statement is political. He wouldn’t be leading anything for very long if he spoke truth and morality. That’s why the tone policing around blanket denunciations of the Republican Party are so frustrating to me - SWIL_Voter - Wednesday, Jan 5, 22 @ 12:01 pm: == Socialism is a threat to democracy.== This doesn’t even make sense. You can argue that democracy is bad if you want, but you can’t argue that democracy isn’t democracy lol - Pundent - Wednesday, Jan 5, 22 @ 12:04 pm: Insurrections and attempts to overthrow democracy and invalidate election results should not be nuanced they, and the people who support them, should be condemned in the strongest manner possible. But neither McConchie or the GOP for that matter seem to be there. They continue to talk about “divisiveness” as if these are topics to be debated or politicized. They are not. Like many history altering events be it 9-11, the civil war, or oppression we simply do not “move on” and pretend that they didn’t happen or look to recast facts and circumstances. Healing starts when we condemn all of the enablers past and present. We’re simply not there yet and may never be. - ste_with_a_v_en - Wednesday, Jan 5, 22 @ 12:08 pm: One of the leading defenders of the insurrectionists is an Illinois woman named Julie Kelly. She is featured on AM 560 and Tucker Carlson. Far too many in “conservative media” will lie to the audience about January 6th, no matter how disconnected from reality. Sadly, much of that audience is now pushing the GOP from the local level to defend Trump and January 6th. It’s’ how Mary Miller gets Trump’s endorsement despite Rodney Davis being the co-chair for his campaign. Too many people have been incentivized to lie, and too many in the GOP need those votes. The GOP will likely never have power in Illinois again, all thanks to the man they continue to swear allegiance to despite him losing everything because of him. - Pundent - Wednesday, Jan 5, 22 @ 12:15 pm: =And so when you run as a Republican candidate aren’t you tacitly seeking these riot supporter’s votes?= If you’re Don Tracy there’s nothing tacit about it, you covet this support. In fact you believe that it’s the only way you can win. And when that’s you’re inevitable conclusion you’ll do everything necessary to minimize the events of 1/6. Your viability depends on it. - Pundent - Wednesday, Jan 5, 22 @ 12:17 pm: = Socialism is a threat to democracy.= Medicare, social security, corporate tax breaks? Is that what we’re talking about? Or is it only certain types of socialism that are bad? Do tell. Your attempts to create false equivalencies between violent insurrections and a social safety net is duly noted. - NonAFSCMEStateEmployeeFromChatham - Wednesday, Jan 5, 22 @ 12:23 pm: ==Republican Party needs to abandon the Trumps, the Hawleys, the Marjorie Taylor Greens and the Mary Millers.== And the Rauners and the Griffins. - Who else - Wednesday, Jan 5, 22 @ 12:24 pm: I’m with OW on this. The statement from a year ago doesn’t cut it, and I hadn’t really thought through why it felt hollow to me until now. The insurrection wasn’t just about people viewing the “opposition party as our enemy”. Insurrectionists were roaming the halls of this nation’s capital hunting elected officials. And they were, and continued to be, encouraged by the rhetoric of the GOP. Not one off statements, but the actual party line. While it would be convenient, it is not possible that on the national stage the GOP is all in on election fraud (the underpinnings of the insurrection), while in the Leader’s words, “here in Illinois, the GOP is centered around rooting out the corruption that festers in the halls of our government and restoring the public’s faith in our representative democracy.” The corruption festering in the halls of government on January 6 were insurrectionists. The confederate flag they were carrying is not just the “most striking symbol of division.” It is a symbol of white supremacy. The corruption roaming the halls of our government on January 6 is inextricably linked to white supremacy. You don’t get to have a separate GOP in Illinois unless you specifically agree as a state party to denounce the elements of the national GOP that led to the insurrection. So yes, let’s root that corruption out. But let’s be really clear about what and who we’re rooting out: white supremacists, insurrectionists and their enablers who have proven they will engage in or provoke violence to achieve their goals. - Norseman - Wednesday, Jan 5, 22 @ 12:58 pm: === Socialism is a threat to democracy. === Initiate Pavlovian response. That’s what the right expect when they use the code words. They want a hate reaction when they use the code even though the political theory and actual policy initiatives have become so muddled to make the term socialism virtually meaningless. I don’t recall the cult complaining about Trump’s socialist program to help farmers. Trump also was a big defender of the evil socialist program , Medicare. - The Dude Abides - Wednesday, Jan 5, 22 @ 1:08 pm: Remember that House Minority Leader McCarthy stripped Cheney of her leadership position because she wanted a full investigation into the attack on the capital on January 6. That tells me all I need to know about the GOP in Washington. They are all scared of what Trump may do to them politically. - phenom_anon - Wednesday, Jan 5, 22 @ 1:33 pm: Has everyone forgotten the hubbub regarding a former POTUS from Illinois palling around with a former domestic terrorist who took part in bombing the US Capitol? Simply condemning and dismissing the 52% (who believe the lie but took no violent action themselves) will only encourage them to stay far off the deep end and possibly radicalize further. Yes, hold everyone who took part accountable to the fullest extent of the law. But someone needs to work to gently bring the rest of the 52% back to reality. That’s how the left dealt with their violent terrorist groups from the 60’s and 70’s and is how the aforementioned terrorist could become a productive UI professor and friend to a POTUS. - Dotnonymous - Wednesday, Jan 5, 22 @ 1:43 pm: “That’s how the left dealt with their violent terrorist groups from the 60’s and 70’s and is how the aforementioned terrorist could become a productive UI professor and friend to a POTUS.” It’s called the “Secret Hubbub Strategy”…here on the Left. - AlfondoGonz - Wednesday, Jan 5, 22 @ 1:49 pm: phenom_anon Your desire to see your friends and colleagues coddled is noted. About 1/4 of this country, maybe a little more, is conjuring up nonsense in cuckooville. The problem with your example is, of course, that the “terrorist” was a fugitive for years before the charges were dismissed to to bad acting on the State’s behalf. While the GOP is sending terrorist enablers to congress. - Nick Name - Wednesday, Jan 5, 22 @ 1:57 pm: ===I don’t know one R that condones what happened last January.=== Condone? It would just nice if they’d acknowledge that it happened. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Jan 5, 22 @ 1:59 pm: ===But someone needs to work to gently bring the rest of the 52% back to reality.=== The cult leader disagrees with you “Red States” disagree with you Members of Congress, The Senate, disagree with you FoxNews, OAN, NewsMax disagrees with you Adam Kinzinger is an enemy to a majority of “Republicans” because he’s standing up for the country and not the party or the cult leader. Friend, not only has that train left the station, it’s gone full bore over the Cliff where the bridge was blown… - phenom_anon - Wednesday, Jan 5, 22 @ 2:01 pm: = The problem with your example is, of course, that the “terrorist” was a fugitive for years before the charges were dismissed to to bad acting on the State’s behalf.= He was a fugitive because of what he did. The charges were dropped because the government broke rules as part of their process. He didn’t cease to be a terrorist. Your use of terrorist in quotes is quite telling of where you stand. He took part in bombing the capitol, along with numerous other gov buildings. Attacking the capitol is ok or it isn’t. That doesn’t change based on whether the government screwed up the prosecution. = Your desire to see your friends and colleagues coddled is noted.= They’re everybody’s friends and colleagues. If there is one thing we’ve learned through this process, is that at our job, family gathering, or wherever, there is likely a believer close to us. If the moderates can’t stomach to embrace them, someone else will, and likely to further radicalize them. There is a reason we often treat cult members as victims, because they are victims of lies and manipulation. You can’t break them out of it by simply condemning and calling them names. That’s true whether they are Branch Davidians or big lie believers. - Skeptic - Wednesday, Jan 5, 22 @ 2:05 pm: “. . . ensures all voices are heard.” Then how about you pass the Voting Rights Act? - phenom_anon - Wednesday, Jan 5, 22 @ 2:06 pm: = The cult leader disagrees with you= While you’re busy calling them names and dismissing them (the 52%) he and his enablers in Congress are free to keep on brainwashing them. Are they going to listen to the people who call them traitors or the people who say they’re right? When the reasonable people leave the GOP, they make it more dense with crazies, more radical, and more open to further radicalize more people. McConchie is trying to bring the sheep back to land of the reasonable. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Jan 5, 22 @ 2:07 pm: ===They’re everybody’s friends and colleagues.=== If racists, conspiracy theorists, and insurrectionists are your embraced friends and colleagues… you are part of the problem. It’s. That. Simple. Full stop. === There is a reason we often treat cult members as victims=== Just say…. “I’m an apologist, I hope they don’t hurt me, I see nothing wrong with what they did.” Save all the ridiculousness, there’s no “third” side. Like McConchie, like Chairman Tracy, you are fine with these folks. That’s part of the problem. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Jan 5, 22 @ 2:11 pm: === While you’re busy calling them names and dismissing them (the 52%) he and his enablers in Congress are free to keep on brainwashing them. Are they going to listen to the people who call them traitors or the people who say they’re right?=== LOL, I mean seriously, this is pathetic. You don’t coddle traitors, insurrectionists, you take them out of the party. I mean, tell that to the Capital Police that the Republicans on the Hill *still* don’t acknowledge as heroes or defending democracy. Stop. You are defending the worst of worst, those wanting to take down democracy. You do realize that, right? You can’t say Kinzinger is right and say “there’s people on the other side of Kinzinger that’s right too”… lol Is this a gag? - AlfondoGonz - Wednesday, Jan 5, 22 @ 2:32 pm: phenom_anon So, I can’t put “terrorist” in quotes, and your (and let me emphasize: your) friends and colleagues can’t be called names because they need TLC in order to snap out of their stupor? Grow up. - phenom_anon - Wednesday, Jan 5, 22 @ 2:39 pm: = So, I can’t put “terrorist” in quotes, and your (and let me emphasize: your) friends and colleagues can’t be called names because they need TLC in order to snap out of their stupor?= Why did you put terrorist in quotes? You took the extra step to do that, instead of just typing the word. Are you ok with what he did? As for calling people names, feel free to, I’m not stopping you. I’m just trying to let you know that you’re not changing hearts and minds that way. It’s insane that we in Illinois can pass numerous laws to expunge records and provide early releases for people who committed all kinds of crimes, all to help return them to being productive members of society. But yet you can’t muster sympathy for people who were lied to and convinced of something that wasn’t real? Again, to be clear, I’m talking about the 52% who believe, not the people who acted. - SWIL_Voter - Wednesday, Jan 5, 22 @ 2:43 pm: == Again, to be clear, I’m talking about the 52% who believe, not the people who acted.== This is such a dumb comparison. You’re comparing people who have pled to or been found guilty of crimes to people who continue to believe in easily disproved lies, who have not even admitted their errors and who continue to pursue the lies with just as much, if not more violent resolve than before. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Jan 5, 22 @ 2:45 pm: === As for calling people names, feel free to, I’m not stopping you. I’m just trying to let you know that you’re not changing hearts and minds that way.=== For the THIRD time; If you want racists, conspiracy theorists, and insurrection sympathizers in the party…. YOU… are part of the problem. You’re not a hero to this, you’re the in-law uncles friend at family gatherings === It’s insane that we in Illinois can pass numerous laws to expunge records and provide early releases for people who committed all kinds of crimes, all to help return them to being productive members of society. But yet you can’t muster sympathy for people who were lied to and convinced of something that wasn’t real? Again, to be clear, I’m talking about the 52% who believe=== “But what about the children” defense? LOL. “Sure, Jan” This is how democracy faces its demise. “A republic, if you can keep it”… but be nice to those encouraging it’s demise For the love of Pete. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Jan 5, 22 @ 2:49 pm: - phenom_anon - In every way, you are saying… “There are good people… on both sides…” - phenom_anon - Wednesday, Jan 5, 22 @ 2:55 pm: = “There are good people… on both sides…”= No, I’m saying that there are people who were lied to and manipulated. I’m sure some of them are good people deep down, and some are not. People become radicalized and potentially violent when they feel marginalized and believe their voices aren’t being heard, whether they are correct in that belief or not. So your solution is to actually marginalize, ostracize and ignore them. In a country where 66% of the population voted, 25% of the population can accomplish a whole lot. You want to encourage them to radicalize even more. Good luck with that. - AlfondoGonz - Wednesday, Jan 5, 22 @ 2:59 pm: “In a country where 66% of the population voted, 25% of the population can accomplish a whole lot. You want to encourage them to radicalize even more. Good luck with that.” I suppose it’s big of you to acknowledge half of your party is too stupid, bitter, deranged, or easily manipulated to move towards reality rather than extremism. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Jan 5, 22 @ 3:00 pm: === No=== Yes, LOL === I’m saying that there are people who were lied to and manipulated. I’m sure some of them are good people deep down, and some are not.=== Trump? === “Yes, I think there’s blame on both sides. If you look at both sides — I think there’s blame on both sides. And I have no doubt about it, and you don’t have any doubt about it either. And if you reported it accurately, you would say.”=== Lied to, fooled, they are on one side, and you’re saying… there are food people in both sides. You are being an apologist to folks willing to tear down our democracy. Just own it as move on - SWIL_Voter - Wednesday, Jan 5, 22 @ 3:00 pm: == You want to encourage them to radicalize even more. Good luck with that== You’re doing that by calling them “victims” without even attempting to push back on the lies they continue to believe. Not sure how coddling terrorists convinces them to stop doing terror and you haven’t even tried to explain how your way is better aside from you don’t want to say uncomfortable things to pep pep at family dinner - phenom_anon - Wednesday, Jan 5, 22 @ 3:02 pm: = If you want racists, conspiracy theorists, and insurrection sympathizers in the party…. YOU… are part of the problem.= To be clear, I don’t want racists, conspiracy theorists and insurrection supporters in any party. I want them to stop being those things. It’s just like I don’t want die hard Scientologists or Jonestown members in any party, I want them to get over the brainwashing and be productive, reasonable people. - Pundent - Wednesday, Jan 5, 22 @ 3:03 pm: =Again, to be clear, I’m talking about the 52% who believe, not the people who acted.= If you don’t believe in democracy and all that it represents, I don’t care if you never acted violently, we will never see things the same way. We can disagree on the politics of things, but not the foundations upon which they were built. - SWIL_Voter - Wednesday, Jan 5, 22 @ 3:06 pm: == I want them to get over the brainwashing and be productive, reasonable people.== But you have to convince them not to drink the kool aid somehow. Your approach is to let the 52% drink the kook aid and then just pretend they didn’t despite how that move impacts reality. Sorry, don’t work like that - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Jan 5, 22 @ 3:07 pm: === It’s just like I don’t want die hard Scientologists or Jonestown members in any party, I want them to get over the brainwashing and be productive, reasonable people.=== Friend, that’s not a reasonable way to look at how first an insurrection went down, then how to remedy it. That’s an enabling way to have it continue. Kinda how Lincoln let the South back, no repercussions, and Grant wins the war but Lee wins the myth. I’ve seen this movie before, we all have, since 1865 - phenom_anon - Wednesday, Jan 5, 22 @ 3:11 pm: = You’re doing that by calling them “victims” without even attempting to push back on the lies they continue to believe.= Sorry, I thought referring to the big lie as such and referring to people being lied to made it pretty clear that yes, it was a lie. Is there someone else you want me to be so that you can hate me more easily? I’m sorry I feel that when I see victims of lies and manipulation, I see humans, and I have sympathy for them. That’s clearly not a concept that is popular here. - SWIL_Voter - Wednesday, Jan 5, 22 @ 3:20 pm: If they’re part of the 52% they aren’t victims though that’s the whole point. Being part of the 52% means they’re consciously choosing to continue to believe the lie. And your “compassion” doesn’t even require they admit they’re wrong. Course correction has to happen somewhere in there right? I shudder to think you have kids. Sorry Johnny hit you but he’s a human too and if you want him to stop hitting you, acting all indignant isn’t going to help. This is definitional gas lighting - AlfondoGonz - Wednesday, Jan 5, 22 @ 3:25 pm: As long as there are “reasonable Republicans” coddling the sedition caucus, the sedition caucus will be aware they have a home in one of the 2 major political parties. - Blue Dog - Wednesday, Jan 5, 22 @ 3:26 pm: what I’m saying is there are really bad people on both sides. this $30 trillion debt and growing doesn’t bode well for a democracy to survive. - SWIL_Voter - Wednesday, Jan 5, 22 @ 3:30 pm: == what I’m saying is there are really bad people on both sides.== And what I’m saying is your scale is whack. You’re calling people on one side “bad” for wanting to expand the social safety net in comparison to the “bad” people on the other side who want to overthrow the government and murder the people who want to expand the safety net. - anon2 - Wednesday, Jan 5, 22 @ 3:36 pm: So he isn’t pure enough, but he said this, which is more than most members of his party have done: “In helping foment current national divisions, there is no longer any doubt that our Republican president has abdicated the principles of freedom, law and order and a democratic process that has for so long enabled the United States to be the leader of the free world. We have never seen such a breach of law and order in the seat of our hallowed republic.” - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Jan 5, 22 @ 3:39 pm: ===which is more than=== McConchie also said this… ===‘ We need every citizen, from every corner of the state, and every background to work together to solve our state’s problems by empowering the people rather than the political elite or the well-connected.’=== … kinda ignoring the whole thing that the party is coddling insurrectionist thinkers. - Pundent - Wednesday, Jan 5, 22 @ 3:39 pm: = this $30 trillion debt and growing doesn’t bode well for a democracy to survive.= Debt is not an existential threat to democracy. You are simply rationalizing efforts to overthrow the government by using a ridiculous comparison. And if you haven’t noticed, deficits are truly bipartisan. The only thing that makes them “socialism,” based on your definition, is who’s running them up. - Lurker - Wednesday, Jan 5, 22 @ 3:43 pm: Here is the crux of the problem for me: “ Admittedly I know the senator personally, and know where he stands on the issue.” Then say the insurrectionists were domestic terrorists and encourage your senator to shout it from the rooftops. Until then, people like me that have been republicans for 60 years (which is 50 longer than the orange skinned NY liar) will never support a Republican. - Pundent - Wednesday, Jan 5, 22 @ 3:49 pm: = he said this, which is more than most members of his party have done= He said it a year ago when emotions were quite raw. Lindsey Graham and others made similar statements. But now? It’s mostly crickets or worse attempts to undermine any efforts to hold those responsible accountable. Adam Kinzinger deserves to be commended, Dan McConchie? Not so much. But here’s something that he and his ILGOP colleagues can do. Provide a full throated unequivocal endorsement of the work being done by the Select Committee? You know, the same work that resulted in Liz Cheney being stripped of her leadership role and Adam Kinzinger being shunned. Because I will not consider anything short of that to be redemptive. Let’s be clear that there is no “divisive political culture” when it comes to matters of democracy. There is simply right and wrong. - Kyle’s mom - Wednesday, Jan 5, 22 @ 3:50 pm: Pretty sure Lincoln would be a Democrat today but ok… - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Jan 5, 22 @ 3:54 pm: === Pretty sure Lincoln would be a Democrat today but ok…=== The party of Lincoln now celebrates Robert E. Lee, insurrections, trampling voter rights, and embraces racism… forgetting the biggest crusader against post civil war racism was Grant… They’ve corrupted the Lincoln Legacy and Grant’s Greatness. - Grandson of Man - Wednesday, Jan 5, 22 @ 4:03 pm: Kinzinger says he will devote himself fully to fighting fascism and anti-democracy, and not run for higher office. Don’t agree with him on almost any policy but totally support him in this. - thechampaignlife - Wednesday, Jan 5, 22 @ 4:09 pm: ===Not sure how coddling terrorists convinces them to stop doing terror=== By your logic, all North Koreans are unredeemable because they support their government which conducts terrorism, irrespective of the multi-generational brainwashing they have received. Their government does terror while telling them that they are being terrorized by the bogeyman. Sound familiar? So, what to do? Alienate them from all aspects of life as we do with North Korea? How has that worked out? Or, should we adopt the Marshall Plan to help them recover from their brainwashing, while prosecuting leaders and completing denazification? Simply put, do we arrest 50M of our fellow Americans as terrorists, or do we arrest the worst 5K of them and help the rest detrump? “When you surround an army, leave an outlet free. Do not press a desperate foe too hard.” -Sun Tzu, The Art of War - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Jan 5, 22 @ 4:47 pm: - thechampaignlife - Are you equating American democracy and… North Korea? That can only work if the insurrection worked and a totalitarian overthrew our election. Your “options” make the country pockets of occupation, as how exactly outside the dorm room can any of that be achieved. Whew What exactly can be done is any party in our democracy can choose to welcome insurrection sympathizers, conspiracy theorists… even racists… … or they can repudiate them, and given them no quarter in their party. The only relevance they have… is that these actors took over a functional and respected institutional party to get acceptance. That’s how this devolved. If they were a third party, they’d be easily marginalized. That’s what’s going on. The rest is dorm-thought to ridiculous avenues to seemingly “save democracy” that have no chance to happen. - SWIL_Voter - Wednesday, Jan 5, 22 @ 4:57 pm: These analogies are so bad they’re almost impossible to respond to, but they all seem to overlook the acknowledgement factor. If they’re in the 52% they haven’t even acknowledged they were wrong. You’re preaching move on. To what? How? A majority of one party believes their true president was overthrown by a fraud. They don’t even recognize the legitimacy of the acting government lol. Are they even willing to move on? Doesn’t seem that way - SWIL_Voter - Wednesday, Jan 5, 22 @ 4:58 pm: Arresting people? Lol what on earth - Pundent - Wednesday, Jan 5, 22 @ 5:02 pm: =Are you equating American democracy and… North Korea?= Sure sounds like it to me. But isn’t the better response, “don’t allow yourself to become North Korea?” I mean isn’t that what the fight for democracy is all about? And if it is attempts at totalitarianism shouldn’t be recast as nothing more than a “divisive political culture.” - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Jan 5, 22 @ 5:10 pm: ===But isn’t the better response, “don’t allow yourself to become North Korea?” I mean isn’t that what the fight for democracy is all about?=== This is very well said. Bitingly good. - thechampaignlife - Wednesday, Jan 5, 22 @ 10:43 pm: ===Are you equating American democracy and… North Korea?=== Sigh. No. I am making an analogy, not equivalency. And it is trumpism and NK that I am comparing, not democracy. ===they haven’t even acknowledged they were wrong. You’re preaching move on.=== Nope, not in the slightest. We should not just move on. This deserves to be repudiated in all forms in perpetuity. But that does not mean 50M Americans are terrorists and irredeemably bad people that should be permanently disavowed, as some on here are advocating. They need to be shown the light and the web of lies that led them astray, not to punish but to restore them to productive members of democracy. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Jan 5, 22 @ 10:51 pm: ===But that does not mean 50M Americans are terrorists and irredeemably bad people that should be permanently disavowed, as some on here are advocating.=== “There are good people, on both sides” I mean… it’s the same just trying to be spun to seem… empathetic… to those who feel ruinous to our democracy. A republic, if we can keep it… One political party embracing insurrectionists is not in the spirit of keeping our republic. Nope. - Pundent - Wednesday, Jan 5, 22 @ 11:31 pm: =But that does not mean 50M Americans are terrorists and irredeemably bad people that should be permanently disavowed, as some on here are advocating.= History is your friend here. Lots of folks, millions in fact, supported Jim Crow and the separate but equal doctrine. But it didn’t make them right or justify their views simply because they represented a large portion of our society. And exactly who’s going to redeem these folks? Certainly not the GOP as currently constructed. And it’s a really heavy lift for Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger. - thechampaignlife - Thursday, Jan 6, 22 @ 8:11 am: ===Lots of folks, millions in fact, supported Jim Crow and the separate but equal doctrine. But it didn’t make them right or justify their views simply because they represented a large portion of our society.=== Yep. They are not right. We want to teach them that. Right now, they still think they are right, and shunning them will do nothing to change that. And as we have seen, 50M is too dangerous to ignore. We are not saying that they deserve an ‘atta-boy, you are a good person and we can agree to disagree’. They must be shown the truth in a way that changes their position. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Jan 6, 22 @ 8:17 am: ===We=== Who’s “we”? ===shunning them will do nothing to change that.=== Sincerely, no snark, are you not reading what is being written? Any party… any political party… that still welcomes racists, conspiracy theorists, insurrectionists… and to get this back to the actual post, if “we” can… and ignore… wholly ignore the damage done by members of that party… these folks are a clear and present threat to American democracy… a North Korea “analogy” or not. They are not good people if they are willing to usurp the powers of our republic to seemingly embrace totalitarianism… and when elected officials ignore that in words… that’s not helping. - anon2 - Thursday, Jan 6, 22 @ 11:23 am: == He said it a year ago == And he just reissued it, which suggests he stands by his renunciation of the former President. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Jan 6, 22 @ 11:30 am: ===And he just reissued it, which suggests he stands by his renunciation of the former President.=== McConchie also said this; ===As I stated following last year’s attack, ‘We need every citizen, from every corner of the state, and every background to work together to solve our state’s problems by empowering the people rather than the political elite or the well-connected.’=== Seemingly unwilling to go after the insurrectionist thinkers… they are the party’s base after all. Sorry, comments for this post are now closed.