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Open thread

Wednesday, Jan 19, 2022

* Have at it.

- Posted by Rich Miller        

79 Comments
  1. - Papa2008 - Wednesday, Jan 19, 22 @ 3:27 am:

    Good morning Rich.


  2. - Galway Bay - Wednesday, Jan 19, 22 @ 4:43 am:

    Looks like first Thursday of NCAA tourney is also St Pats. Do there’s that.


  3. - Galway Bay - Wednesday, Jan 19, 22 @ 4:44 am:

    *so. Not do


  4. - Michael Jordan 2022 - Wednesday, Jan 19, 22 @ 5:12 am:

    Can someone get Ken Griffin and JB Pritzker to call a truce, not waste money and prop up silly candidates…instead, use that money to buy the Chicago Bulls and White Sox from Reinsdorf so everyone can be happy regardless of party?


  5. - Suburban Mom - Wednesday, Jan 19, 22 @ 6:33 am:

    Excited about WBEZ acquiring the Sun-Times.


  6. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Jan 19, 22 @ 6:42 am:

    Good morning, especially to Jesse Sullivan’s running mate… whomever that may be.


  7. - PublicServant - Wednesday, Jan 19, 22 @ 6:57 am:

    I wonder what Grif will have his bought and paid for puppet say today.


  8. - PublicServant - Wednesday, Jan 19, 22 @ 7:20 am:

    The Bears need to fire the owners and sell the team MJ. Until then we’re screwed.


  9. - The Snowman - Wednesday, Jan 19, 22 @ 7:42 am:

    Why do we need a Federal takeover for “Voting Rights”? Show me what legal voter has been denied the right to vote lately.


  10. - sal-says - Wednesday, Jan 19, 22 @ 7:45 am:

    WBEZ

    Buying Sun Times

    Outstanding

    Thanks WBEZ !


  11. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Jan 19, 22 @ 7:48 am:

    ===legal voter===

    That’s adorable.

    If you are against making voting easier, you are against democracy.

    It was heartwarming to see both Nick Saban and Jerry West push for legislation to make voting what it should be… fair and equal.

    “legal voter”

    When someone tells you who they are…


  12. - Pundent - Wednesday, Jan 19, 22 @ 7:49 am:

    =Show me what legal voter has been denied the right to vote lately.=

    Way to put your feelings all out there. I guess by that same logic we didn’t need civil rights?


  13. - Skeptic - Wednesday, Jan 19, 22 @ 8:05 am:

    “Show me what legal voter has been denied the right to vote lately.” Ok then, if I can’t, then show me why Republicans are so h*** bent on making sure people can’t vote…i.e., show me what problem they’re trying to solve.


  14. - bball_coach - Wednesday, Jan 19, 22 @ 8:26 am:

    let’s make this easy who has been denied the right to vote?


  15. - Jocko - Wednesday, Jan 19, 22 @ 8:35 am:

    ==what legal voter has been denied the right to vote==

    Dropping voters off rolls, closing hundreds of polling places, requiring photo ID (like those held by our founding fathers). Shall I go on?


  16. - Pundent - Wednesday, Jan 19, 22 @ 8:40 am:

    =let’s make this easy who has been denied the right to vote?=

    I guess you won’t be giving up your seat on the bus anytime soon either.


  17. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Jan 19, 22 @ 8:43 am:

    ===who has been denied the right to vote?===

    Who exactly are you afraid is voting?

    Luckily in Illinois our laws are not as damaging to the franchise of voting.

    You think the John Lewis Voting Rights Act would have 100% support.

    It’s another good indicator if you are confused who people are. Ask them if they favor that legislation, it says a great deal.

    What is disappointing is the blowback in Alabama that Nick Saban is facing. The idea that even Saban is facing any blowback there, you can’t help but see how disenfranchising minority groups is more important than Alabama football.

    If you are so ignorant (the dictionary definition) or that racist that you can’t see what states are doing to disenfranchise people from voting, maybe rethink what you’re thoughts are on race, or better… democracy.

    Illinois has been, continues to be a beacon. We need that as a country.


  18. - Suburban Mom - Wednesday, Jan 19, 22 @ 8:44 am:

    17 million people, just from purges, just in 2016-2018: https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/analysis-opinion/voter-purge-rates-remain-high-analysis-finds

    “As many as 11 percent of eligible voters do not have the kind of ID that is required by states with strict ID requirements, and that percentage is even higher among seniors, minorities, people with disabilities, low-income voters, and students.” - https://www.brennancenter.org/issues/ensure-every-american-can-vote/vote-suppression/voter-id

    (In Florida, notably, strict ID requirements were a super-efficient way of purging older Black voters from the roles, because Black hospitals in Florida under segregation did not issue birth certificates; white hospitals did. Florida made it next to impossible to get a state ID without a birth certificate, and then required the state ID to vote, effectively barring tens of thousands of Black voters who had voted in every election since they became eligible. Acquiring a state ID without a birth certificate — that the state of Florida refused to issue you under Jim Crow — is a lengthy process requiring multiple trips to multiple locations, including various state records places and the courthouse, and costs in excess of $1000. It’s a poll tax imposed on Black people.

    A general overview of voter-suppression tactics intended to deprive American citizens of their right to vote:
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/nov/07/is-america-a-democracy-if-so-why-does-it-deny-millions-the-vote


  19. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Jan 19, 22 @ 8:45 am:

    Anonymous comments on voting rights is chef kiss perfect to why voting rights need to be protected from those anonymous folks willing to cripple voting rights “not like them”

    Chef Kiss Perfect


  20. - JS Mill - Wednesday, Jan 19, 22 @ 8:47 am:

    =Show me what legal voter has been denied the right to vote lately.=

    So you are asking us to name names? Jim Crow called…he says you are just fine.


  21. - Jibba - Wednesday, Jan 19, 22 @ 8:51 am:

    ===who has been denied the right to vote===

    According to a Guardian article 4 days ago, A Texas county is denying about half of the absentee ballot applications submitted for the March primary using the new voter restriction laws there. So, I’d say those folks.


  22. - JS Mill - Wednesday, Jan 19, 22 @ 8:52 am:

    Here is a link to a story in Texas, it may be the same one @Jibba referenced. So there is that.

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/texas-rejects-hundreds-mail-ballot-232705241.html


  23. - bball_coach - Wednesday, Jan 19, 22 @ 8:54 am:

    I am not afraid of anyone who wants to vote. Anyone who wants to vote should be able to vote but like numerous other activities there are common sense restrictions. For example providing an id which is required in many situations but not when voting? Voting is a right just as owning a gun is a right. You have to prove you are who you say you are when purchasing a gun, as you should. I believe that standard should be in place when you exercise your right to vote.


  24. - Pundent - Wednesday, Jan 19, 22 @ 8:58 am:

    =Who was denied the right to vote?=

    While I think your question is ridiculous, I will provide you with an answer. Much like our efforts to segregate people by race the current movement to curtail voting rights is rooted in suppression by creating barriers for minorities that don’t exist for the populace. Sure they can vote but it will be subject to rules and restrictions that no other person would reasonably expect to endure. Whether that’s limitations on voting sites, hours long waits, or ballot drop boxes being removed or other draconian restrictions that systematically target the poor and people of color. Just like Rosa Parks could “ride” on the bus she was subjected to an entirely different set of rules based solely on the color of her skin and a desire to minimize her importance in society.

    So perhaps the better question is why would you advocate for a system that treats people differently based on their race or economic status ? Doesn’t seem democratic to me. Unless you only support democracy when it enables “the right people” to win.


  25. - NonAFSCMEStateEmployeeFromChatham&B1GFan - Wednesday, Jan 19, 22 @ 8:59 am:

    ==Nick Saban==

    The same Nick Saban who’s basically the Bill Bellicheck and Bruce Pearl of college football?


  26. - Jibba - Wednesday, Jan 19, 22 @ 9:00 am:

    ===I believe that standard should be in place when you exercise your right to vote.===

    “Studies show that as many as 11 percent of eligible voters do not have government-issued photo ID. That percentage is even higher for seniors, people of color, people with disabilities, low-income voters, and students. Many citizens find it hard to get government photo IDs, because the underlying documentation like birth certificates (the ID one needs to get ID) is often difficult or expensive to come by.[5] ”
    —Brennan Center for Justice (2012)


  27. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Jan 19, 22 @ 9:02 am:

    ===Anyone who wants to vote should be able to vote but like numerous other activities there are common sense restrictions.===

    You mean like removing dozens and dozens of polling places, making drop boxes for absentee ballots disappear or impossible to get to without transportation?

    Those are restrictions, not common sense.

    The ID idea is restrictive since when you register to vote, in Illinois, under provisions, you show ID. It’s already done.

    You either know that from being registered, or you are trying to seem thoughtful, but want limited participation

    ===You have to prove you are who you say you are when purchasing a gun, as you should. I believe that standard should be in place when you exercise your right to vote.===

    Explain the voter registration process.

    Go back to bed. Start this day over.

    “Well, we ant make it easier, some don’t want to vote”

    Aren’t you the same person who didn’t care about football injures in a college playoff, where minority players make up a large portion of the athletes… for your amusement… but making it easier for those same players to vote is a non-starter for you.

    Lemme guess, “coach”… “all my players stand for the anthem, or else”…

    What a crock of a take….


  28. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Jan 19, 22 @ 9:03 am:

    ===basically the Bill Bellicheck and Bruce Pearl of college football?===

    Example of actual violations?

    Thanks.


  29. - Jibba - Wednesday, Jan 19, 22 @ 9:08 am:

    If you really cared about facts and getting everyone to vote, you’d read a little. Here is a start, but you can also google about why poor and minority folks can’t get an ID.

    https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/challenge-obtaining-voter-identification


  30. - Downstate - Wednesday, Jan 19, 22 @ 9:11 am:

    “Aren’t you the same person who didn’t care about”

    OW,
    When you start with the personal attacks, you diminish the strength of your argument.

    Forbes survey of 2021 found that 80% of Americans favor voter ID laws.


  31. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Jan 19, 22 @ 9:12 am:

    - Downstate -

    Aren’t you the same person who mocks child molestation?

    ===Forbes survey of 2021 found that 80% of Americans favor voter ID laws.===

    It is also restrictive, it can be both.


  32. - Downstate - Wednesday, Jan 19, 22 @ 9:14 am:

    “Aren’t you the same person…..”

    LOL. You’re making my case for me.


  33. - TheInvisibleMan - Wednesday, Jan 19, 22 @ 9:18 am:

    = common sense restrictions =

    He says, without a hint of irony, after constantly railing against ‘common sense restrictions’ to prevent the spread of a contagious disease.

    Just pretend voting is the same as going to a restaurant in rural Illinois at the height of the pandemic. Restrictions are only for people who live in fear.


  34. - City remap - Wednesday, Jan 19, 22 @ 9:19 am:

    During the lopsided games on Sunday, I drove over to Palermo’s pizza. Upon entering a Vaccination card and photo ID were asked and I supplied them. While eating and having a discussion on election issues, I asked some older and younger family members about the issue of bottled water and snacks being supplied while in line to vote. In conclusion, it was split 50/50 with older voters not approving.


  35. - Arsenal - Wednesday, Jan 19, 22 @ 9:22 am:

    ==For example providing an id which is required in many situations but not when voting?==

    I’d be cool with a voter ID if it was provided by the government to all eligible citizens, free of charge and with the gov’t taking the initiative.

    Otherwise, it seems like it’s just some bureaucratic fooferaw designed to make the process harder.


  36. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Jan 19, 22 @ 9:23 am:

    - Downstate -

    At least you own that you mocking. It’s sad, but you own it.

    In Illinois we are fortunate to the opportunities that should be a given for voting without needless restrictions that limit participation, or aimed at persons of color and groups that are minority in measure.

    What is happening is this phony concern for voter integrity which is exactly voter suppression and limiting access to vote.

    It’s a clear cut issue, mostly because of the way the restrictions are imposed, and which groups immediately are disenfranchised.

    It’s purposeful.

    Actually go “south”. Go into segregated towns with confederate statues and hear these folks talk about limiting voting… in Atlanta… in places “not like them”… it’s not about a concern of voter security… “they” are stealing the election.

    “They”

    Illinois isn’t like Oregon or other states making it even easier, but Illinois, us folk, should feel all states should have equal access for all.


  37. - JoanP - Wednesday, Jan 19, 22 @ 9:23 am:

    = Forbes survey of 2021 found that 80% of Americans favor voter ID laws. =

    I wonder how many people, back in the day, favored poll taxes and literacy tests.

    Just because a lot of people favor something doesn’t make it right.


  38. - Arsenal - Wednesday, Jan 19, 22 @ 9:24 am:

    ==Why do we need a Federal takeover for “Voting Rights”? Show me what legal voter has been denied the right to vote lately. ==

    Why do we need state “voter integrity” laws? Show me the illegal vote that was cast and counted.


  39. - Steve - Wednesday, Jan 19, 22 @ 9:25 am:

    -If you are against making voting easier, you are against democracy.-

    This is a true statement. Historically, the states have had wide scope on voting rights and laws. For much of American history voting rights were much different than other rights. Some states allow felons to vote , some don’t. You might say voting has been quite undemocratic through a lot of American history. Article 4 , Section 4 guarantees a republican form of government but not much else. With this U.S. Supreme Court ,it is not clear ,if they wouldn’t strike down the proposed John Lewis Voting Act.


  40. - Anyone Remember - Wednesday, Jan 19, 22 @ 9:33 am:

    ===I wonder how many people, back in the day, favored poll taxes and literacy tests.===

    Apparently more than a few of “The Greatest Generation” …

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2021/12/20/greatest-generation-survey-race-sex/


  41. - Downstate - Wednesday, Jan 19, 22 @ 9:39 am:

    “Just because a lot of people favor something doesn’t make it right.”

    So rule by the minority? I believe that was the mantra for Apartheid.

    OW, Would you favor allowing non-citizens to vote?


  42. - Demoralized - Wednesday, Jan 19, 22 @ 9:40 am:

    ==Would you favor allowing non-citizens to vote?==

    If they are here legally and paying taxes then I would certainly support that.


  43. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Jan 19, 22 @ 9:44 am:

    === So rule by the minority?===

    See: Senate, United States

    ===Would you favor allowing non-citizens to vote?===

    Illinois’ voter registration is sufficient for me, access to receiving ballots, early voting, mail voting, and access to Election Day polling places are acceptable to me, here, in Illinois, and I’d like to see the country have access for all to be, at the bare minimums, mirror Illinois.

    Your trolling for “non-citizens” is like going to an all-white diner in the outskirts of Savannah, GA and listening to folks discuss Atlanta voters like all voters “not like them” are not citizens.

    It’s a crutch to racial inequality at the ballot box, an argument wanted to derail actual needs for access.

    Good try.


  44. - Blue Dog - Wednesday, Jan 19, 22 @ 9:54 am:

    voting in any manner should require an ID.


  45. - Skeptic - Wednesday, Jan 19, 22 @ 9:56 am:

    “=== So rule by the minority?===” You support rule by majority? Some from downstate Illinois would like to kick Chicago out of the state for exactly that reason.


  46. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Jan 19, 22 @ 9:56 am:

    ===should require an ID.===

    Explain voter registration in Illinois.

    Explain what it entails, also explain why motor-voter can be done at the SoS offices. Explain.


  47. - Blue Dog - Wednesday, Jan 19, 22 @ 10:05 am:

    you want a ballot, whether it’s at a polling place or via mail. ID. if not. stay at home. democracy requires a bit of effort.


  48. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Jan 19, 22 @ 10:07 am:

    ===if not. stay at home.===

    That’s disenfranchisement, that’s not vote security.

    Can’t explain Illinois’ voter registration or why motor-voter exists?

    Huh. Interesting.


  49. - Demoralized - Wednesday, Jan 19, 22 @ 10:09 am:

    Blue Dog

    You’re attempting to fix a problem where none exists.


  50. - Southern - Wednesday, Jan 19, 22 @ 10:14 am:

    Anyone else unable to hear audio from the mask case hearing?


  51. - JoanP - Wednesday, Jan 19, 22 @ 10:15 am:

    = So rule by the minority? =

    Don’t be obtuse. If the majority is trampling on the rights of the minority, they need to be called out and stopped.

    You might try to remember why Monday was a holiday.


  52. - IT Data Guy - Wednesday, Jan 19, 22 @ 10:15 am:

    – democracy requires a bit of effort –

    I disagree. In fact, voting should be the easiest thing we do. It should be a national holiday or last a week. We should give every eligible person the time and the ability to vote. Instead go limiting voting or trying to rig the game, field better candidates.


  53. - Jocko - Wednesday, Jan 19, 22 @ 10:18 am:

    ==voting in any manner should require an ID.==

    Name one person before 1940 that showed identification at the polls. Heck, photo ID wasn’t widely used until 1915.


  54. - SangamonCountyLine - Wednesday, Jan 19, 22 @ 10:27 am:

    Well Jocko, a good many contracts consisted of a handshake back then too, so that is press much an irrelevent point.

    Voting is a serious business and should be treated as such.


  55. - tea_and_honey - Wednesday, Jan 19, 22 @ 10:28 am:

    = Forbes survey of 2021 found that 80% of Americans favor voter ID laws. =

    And how many of them have been fed propaganda about millions of people voting fraudulently?


  56. - Suburban Mom - Wednesday, Jan 19, 22 @ 10:31 am:

    In Florida, during Jim Crow, Black hospitals did not offer birth certificates at the hospital. They were not allowed to. White hospitals did. So tens of thousands of Black citizens never had a birth certificate in Florida. Many could never acquire state ID as a result, but were registered voters, and reliably voted in every election.

    Until it occurred to Florida GOP that requiring state ID to vote would very neatly remove older Black people who were very reliable voters from the voting rolls in Florida, without touching older white voters.

    To get state ID in Florida, you require a birth certificate. If you were born in Florida and lived your entire life there and the state of Florida refused to issue you a birth certificate when you were born because you were Black? TOUGH NOOGIES, that is not Florida’s problem, that is your problem.

    To acquire a birth certificate, so you can get a state ID, so you can vote (in the state that refused to issue you a birth certificate in the first place, for having the temerity to be born Black) is a multi-week process involving visits to multiple state offices and courthouses. You must deal with a central registry in Tallahassee, which takes more than 8 weeks to issue your birth certificate in response to requests WHEN THEY HAVE IT ON HAND; much longer if the birth certificate never existed and you’re trying to get documentation to get state ID. They also DO NOT INFORM YOU if your request is denied; they just ignore you. (My husband recently had to get a corrected birth certificate from Florida, where he was born, and it was a PROCESS. It took literally months.)

    It typically costs more than $1000 to get Florida to recognize you exist and have the right to vote when you don’t have a birth certificate because you were born Black in Florida, and Florida now requires you to have a document they refused to give you at the time, and demand you spend more than $1,000 and probably several months, including probably an in-person trip to Tallahassee and an in-person trip to the county seat of wherever you were born, which is TRICKY WHEN YOU DON’T DRIVE BECAUSE FLORIDA WON’T GIVE YOU A DRIVERS LICENSE BECAUSE YOU DON’T HAVE A BIRTH CERTIFICATE which you cannot acquire without the ability to drive to visit all these far-flung parts of the state attempting to document your existence.

    If you are supporting voter ID restrictions on the right to vote, that is what you are supporting. You are not supporting some common-sense system where all Americans have access to a free form of state ID after going through some minor amount of bureaucratic hassle. You are supporting a system that denies access to necessary ID documents to poor and minority citizens, and requires them to spend sums of money that are a) never asked of white voters who started driving at 16, and b) unaffordable for many of those affected. It requires people to devote a year of their life to tromping all over a big state — WHILE NOT BEING ALLOWED TO DRIVE! — to attempt to satisfy the state’s demands for proof of birth, proof that THAT STATE refused to issue.

    So when you say you support voter ID, you are saying you support charging minority voters $1000 or more, and purging minority voters from the voter rolls, for having been born Black under Jim Crow. Is that what you support? If that isn’t what you support, stop saying you “support voter ID.” THIS IS WHAT VOTER ID REQUIREMENTS ARE. THIS IS WHAT THEY DO. AND THIS IS HOW THEY ARE INTENDED TO WORK.


  57. - Blue Dog - Wednesday, Jan 19, 22 @ 10:34 am:

    I can’t remember exactly when I no longer was asked for my ID to get my ballot. I thought it strange then. and strange now. it’s the simplest thing in all the world to have an ID. no. its the least we should require.


  58. - Rich Miller - Wednesday, Jan 19, 22 @ 10:38 am:

    People, get back to Illinois.

    Also, you have to show ID to register to vote. Your signature is your ID when you vote.


  59. - Downstate - Wednesday, Jan 19, 22 @ 10:38 am:

    “And how many of them have been fed propaganda…”

    Uhm, there are multiple surveys out there. This isn’t some conspiracy theory that people support voter id laws.

    If voter fraud wasn’t an issue, why does Chicago have such a long-standing reputation for voting irregularity? That wasn’t conjured up out of whole cloth.


  60. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Jan 19, 22 @ 10:39 am:

    ===it’s the simplest thing in all the world to have an ID.===

    The privileged bubble in which you live….


  61. - Pundent - Wednesday, Jan 19, 22 @ 10:46 am:

    =democracy requires a bit of effort.=

    Something tells me that you didn’t have to wait in line for hours to vote. Or have to figure out how to get to a ballot box miles from home because you don’t have time off on election day to go to a local precinct. The efforts to limit or restrict voter access go way beyond voter ID. The call for “voter ID” is merely a dog whistle for a whole host of restrictions designed to disenfranchise poor people and people of color. As a self-proclaimed “independent” I’m surprised you don’t know that.


  62. - Amalia - Wednesday, Jan 19, 22 @ 10:50 am:

    Kari Steele touts Gardiner endorsement then pulls back. LOL.


  63. - Downstate - Wednesday, Jan 19, 22 @ 11:30 am:

    “Also, you have to show ID to register to vote. Your signature is your ID when you vote.”

    With all due respect, the signature is not matched up at the time of voting to verify identity. If people used an id to register, that same id would be easy to provide at voting time.

    Alternatively, I’ve suggested an app for all voting judges. They can simply snap a photo of anyone that doesn’t have their id. Those photos can then be matched up later to assure the voter registration and exercise was proper.

    Thanks.


  64. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Jan 19, 22 @ 11:33 am:

    === With all due respect, the signature is not matched up at the time of voting to verify identity===

    *Every* time I have voted at a poll, even early voting, my signature was verified as a match with election judgeS before getting my ballot.

    Every. Time.

    Your election judges may not have done the check or were trained, but the checking of a signature is part of the process.


  65. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Jan 19, 22 @ 11:35 am:

    ===They can simply snap a photo of anyone that doesn’t have their id.===

    So you are encouraging other rights to be violated so, again, you can stifle voters unwilling to get their picture taken?

    I mean, for real, just say you want voter suppression for folks “that don’t look like me”


  66. - Pundent - Wednesday, Jan 19, 22 @ 11:49 am:

    =If people used an id to register, that same id would be easy to provide at voting time.=

    So what problem are you trying to solve? The absence of voter id is not evidence of fraud. And if there is significant evidence of fraud that would be eliminated by an ID maybe someone should offer it up. And while they’re at it they can also explain how creating additional barriers and obstacles to voting makes elections “safer.” Because absent of that the intent and conclusion is clear.


  67. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Jan 19, 22 @ 11:51 am:

    ===why does Chicago have such a long-standing reputation for voting irregularity?===

    Because myths… outlive the truth.

    Gotta have a “She-Caw-Go” face to it… even though… myths are taken now as real time truth.


  68. - Blue Dog - Wednesday, Jan 19, 22 @ 12:04 pm:

    if providing an ID to obtain a ballot is such a barrier, so be it. in my experience those Republicans will do about anything to rig an election. I’ve seen it with my own eyes.


  69. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Jan 19, 22 @ 12:06 pm:

    ===if providing an ID to obtain a ballot is such a barrier, so be it===

    Proving, once again, you are not a serious person here or serious to a discussion.

    That’s on me, my bad. I’m done feeding you today.


  70. - Blue Dog - Wednesday, Jan 19, 22 @ 12:10 pm:

    equating voter ID to racism is a ridiculous argument. you can make the claim if you want. it’s just silly.


  71. - Jibba - Wednesday, Jan 19, 22 @ 12:29 pm:

    ===equating voter ID to racism is a ridiculous argument===

    “Minority voters disproportionately lack ID. Nationally, up to 25% of African-American citizens of voting age lack government-issued photo ID, compared to only 8% of whites”

    Still think there is no racial component to this?

    https://www.aclu.org/other/oppose-voter-id-legislation-fact-sheet


  72. - Trying to be Rational - Wednesday, Jan 19, 22 @ 12:33 pm:

    In the news today: Carhartt is continuing its vaccine mandate while Starbucks is dropping its mandate. You’d expect the opposite for both companies.


  73. - Pundent - Wednesday, Jan 19, 22 @ 12:35 pm:

    =equating voter ID to racism is a ridiculous argument. you can make the claim if you want. it’s just silly.=

    Well the courts don’t find it silly. But maybe their understanding of the law is somehow lacking.

    https://www.pubintlaw.org/cases-and-projects/supreme-court-send-voter-id-case-back-to-commonwealth-court/

    And rarely do we see restrictions on voting end with providing an ID. Although maybe in your world the idea of someone waiting in line for hours to vote is “common sense.”


  74. - Lucky Pierre - Wednesday, Jan 19, 22 @ 1:52 pm:

    At the same time, fully 4 in 5 Americans (80%) support requiring voters to show photo identification in order to cast a ballot. Just 18% oppose this.

    https://www.monmouth.edu/polling-institute/reports/monmouthpoll_us_062121/


  75. - Rich Miller - Wednesday, Jan 19, 22 @ 1:53 pm:

    LP, you cannot register to vote here without an ID or other proof of residence (utility bills, etc.). Ergo, you cannot vote here without an ID.


  76. - Tombrady - Wednesday, Jan 19, 22 @ 7:10 pm:

    After the last 2 presidential elections, it seems like everyone should agree that election procedures should be reviewed and improved. The devil is in the details and only God and OW are all-knowing (not necessarily in that order). Most reasonable people would agree that some states had voting irregularities in the last 2 elections (e.g., ballot harvesting) so these things need to be fixed. Not sure why IDs to ensure honest elections are often translated into voter suppression.


  77. - Da big bad wolf - Thursday, Jan 20, 22 @ 6:26 am:

    This has been a very educational thread. I didn’t know about the Florida id segregated hospitals situation, for example.

    But the Freedom to Vote Act doesn’t take away a state’s right to ask a voter for an id. From NBC news: “If states choose to require voter ID, the bill would create a national standard of acceptable forms; the standard would allow a wider range of identifying documents — and electronic copies.”


  78. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Jan 20, 22 @ 6:43 am:

    ===Most reasonable people would agree that some states had voting irregularities===

    That is wholly inaccurate and untrue, as you refused to name such things, sounding like the cultists who want to push voting restrictions.

    ===Not sure why IDs to ensure honest elections are often translated into voter suppression===

    You can’t be that daft, but since you believe the big lie, maybe you can’t grasp honesty to what actually happened… a fair and free election… and Trump lost.

    ===only God and…===

    (Sigh) … sure, pal.


  79. - Da big bad wolf - Thursday, Jan 20, 22 @ 6:51 am:

    The Freedom to vote act does not prevent states from requiring an id.


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