- Michael Jordan 2022 - Wednesday, Jan 19, 22 @ 5:12 am:
Can someone get Ken Griffin and JB Pritzker to call a truce, not waste money and prop up silly candidates…instead, use that money to buy the Chicago Bulls and White Sox from Reinsdorf so everyone can be happy regardless of party?
“Show me what legal voter has been denied the right to vote lately.” Ok then, if I can’t, then show me why Republicans are so h*** bent on making sure people can’t vote…i.e., show me what problem they’re trying to solve.
Luckily in Illinois our laws are not as damaging to the franchise of voting.
You think the John Lewis Voting Rights Act would have 100% support.
It’s another good indicator if you are confused who people are. Ask them if they favor that legislation, it says a great deal.
What is disappointing is the blowback in Alabama that Nick Saban is facing. The idea that even Saban is facing any blowback there, you can’t help but see how disenfranchising minority groups is more important than Alabama football.
If you are so ignorant (the dictionary definition) or that racist that you can’t see what states are doing to disenfranchise people from voting, maybe rethink what you’re thoughts are on race, or better… democracy.
Illinois has been, continues to be a beacon. We need that as a country.
(In Florida, notably, strict ID requirements were a super-efficient way of purging older Black voters from the roles, because Black hospitals in Florida under segregation did not issue birth certificates; white hospitals did. Florida made it next to impossible to get a state ID without a birth certificate, and then required the state ID to vote, effectively barring tens of thousands of Black voters who had voted in every election since they became eligible. Acquiring a state ID without a birth certificate — that the state of Florida refused to issue you under Jim Crow — is a lengthy process requiring multiple trips to multiple locations, including various state records places and the courthouse, and costs in excess of $1000. It’s a poll tax imposed on Black people.
According to a Guardian article 4 days ago, A Texas county is denying about half of the absentee ballot applications submitted for the March primary using the new voter restriction laws there. So, I’d say those folks.
I am not afraid of anyone who wants to vote. Anyone who wants to vote should be able to vote but like numerous other activities there are common sense restrictions. For example providing an id which is required in many situations but not when voting? Voting is a right just as owning a gun is a right. You have to prove you are who you say you are when purchasing a gun, as you should. I believe that standard should be in place when you exercise your right to vote.
While I think your question is ridiculous, I will provide you with an answer. Much like our efforts to segregate people by race the current movement to curtail voting rights is rooted in suppression by creating barriers for minorities that don’t exist for the populace. Sure they can vote but it will be subject to rules and restrictions that no other person would reasonably expect to endure. Whether that’s limitations on voting sites, hours long waits, or ballot drop boxes being removed or other draconian restrictions that systematically target the poor and people of color. Just like Rosa Parks could “ride” on the bus she was subjected to an entirely different set of rules based solely on the color of her skin and a desire to minimize her importance in society.
So perhaps the better question is why would you advocate for a system that treats people differently based on their race or economic status ? Doesn’t seem democratic to me. Unless you only support democracy when it enables “the right people” to win.
- NonAFSCMEStateEmployeeFromChatham&B1GFan - Wednesday, Jan 19, 22 @ 8:59 am:
The same Nick Saban who’s basically the Bill Bellicheck and Bruce Pearl of college football?
===I believe that standard should be in place when you exercise your right to vote.===
“Studies show that as many as 11 percent of eligible voters do not have government-issued photo ID. That percentage is even higher for seniors, people of color, people with disabilities, low-income voters, and students. Many citizens find it hard to get government photo IDs, because the underlying documentation like birth certificates (the ID one needs to get ID) is often difficult or expensive to come by. ”
—Brennan Center for Justice (2012)
===Anyone who wants to vote should be able to vote but like numerous other activities there are common sense restrictions.===
You mean like removing dozens and dozens of polling places, making drop boxes for absentee ballots disappear or impossible to get to without transportation?
Those are restrictions, not common sense.
The ID idea is restrictive since when you register to vote, in Illinois, under provisions, you show ID. It’s already done.
You either know that from being registered, or you are trying to seem thoughtful, but want limited participation
===You have to prove you are who you say you are when purchasing a gun, as you should. I believe that standard should be in place when you exercise your right to vote.===
Explain the voter registration process.
Go back to bed. Start this day over.
“Well, we ant make it easier, some don’t want to vote”
Aren’t you the same person who didn’t care about football injures in a college playoff, where minority players make up a large portion of the athletes… for your amusement… but making it easier for those same players to vote is a non-starter for you.
Lemme guess, “coach”… “all my players stand for the anthem, or else”…
During the lopsided games on Sunday, I drove over to Palermo’s pizza. Upon entering a Vaccination card and photo ID were asked and I supplied them. While eating and having a discussion on election issues, I asked some older and younger family members about the issue of bottled water and snacks being supplied while in line to vote. In conclusion, it was split 50/50 with older voters not approving.
At least you own that you mocking. It’s sad, but you own it.
In Illinois we are fortunate to the opportunities that should be a given for voting without needless restrictions that limit participation, or aimed at persons of color and groups that are minority in measure.
What is happening is this phony concern for voter integrity which is exactly voter suppression and limiting access to vote.
It’s a clear cut issue, mostly because of the way the restrictions are imposed, and which groups immediately are disenfranchised.
Actually go “south”. Go into segregated towns with confederate statues and hear these folks talk about limiting voting… in Atlanta… in places “not like them”… it’s not about a concern of voter security… “they” are stealing the election.
Illinois isn’t like Oregon or other states making it even easier, but Illinois, us folk, should feel all states should have equal access for all.
-If you are against making voting easier, you are against democracy.-
This is a true statement. Historically, the states have had wide scope on voting rights and laws. For much of American history voting rights were much different than other rights. Some states allow felons to vote , some don’t. You might say voting has been quite undemocratic through a lot of American history. Article 4 , Section 4 guarantees a republican form of government but not much else. With this U.S. Supreme Court ,it is not clear ,if they wouldn’t strike down the proposed John Lewis Voting Act.
===Would you favor allowing non-citizens to vote?===
Illinois’ voter registration is sufficient for me, access to receiving ballots, early voting, mail voting, and access to Election Day polling places are acceptable to me, here, in Illinois, and I’d like to see the country have access for all to be, at the bare minimums, mirror Illinois.
Your trolling for “non-citizens” is like going to an all-white diner in the outskirts of Savannah, GA and listening to folks discuss Atlanta voters like all voters “not like them” are not citizens.
It’s a crutch to racial inequality at the ballot box, an argument wanted to derail actual needs for access.
I disagree. In fact, voting should be the easiest thing we do. It should be a national holiday or last a week. We should give every eligible person the time and the ability to vote. Instead go limiting voting or trying to rig the game, field better candidates.
In Florida, during Jim Crow, Black hospitals did not offer birth certificates at the hospital. They were not allowed to. White hospitals did. So tens of thousands of Black citizens never had a birth certificate in Florida. Many could never acquire state ID as a result, but were registered voters, and reliably voted in every election.
Until it occurred to Florida GOP that requiring state ID to vote would very neatly remove older Black people who were very reliable voters from the voting rolls in Florida, without touching older white voters.
To get state ID in Florida, you require a birth certificate. If you were born in Florida and lived your entire life there and the state of Florida refused to issue you a birth certificate when you were born because you were Black? TOUGH NOOGIES, that is not Florida’s problem, that is your problem.
To acquire a birth certificate, so you can get a state ID, so you can vote (in the state that refused to issue you a birth certificate in the first place, for having the temerity to be born Black) is a multi-week process involving visits to multiple state offices and courthouses. You must deal with a central registry in Tallahassee, which takes more than 8 weeks to issue your birth certificate in response to requests WHEN THEY HAVE IT ON HAND; much longer if the birth certificate never existed and you’re trying to get documentation to get state ID. They also DO NOT INFORM YOU if your request is denied; they just ignore you. (My husband recently had to get a corrected birth certificate from Florida, where he was born, and it was a PROCESS. It took literally months.)
It typically costs more than $1000 to get Florida to recognize you exist and have the right to vote when you don’t have a birth certificate because you were born Black in Florida, and Florida now requires you to have a document they refused to give you at the time, and demand you spend more than $1,000 and probably several months, including probably an in-person trip to Tallahassee and an in-person trip to the county seat of wherever you were born, which is TRICKY WHEN YOU DON’T DRIVE BECAUSE FLORIDA WON’T GIVE YOU A DRIVERS LICENSE BECAUSE YOU DON’T HAVE A BIRTH CERTIFICATE which you cannot acquire without the ability to drive to visit all these far-flung parts of the state attempting to document your existence.
If you are supporting voter ID restrictions on the right to vote, that is what you are supporting. You are not supporting some common-sense system where all Americans have access to a free form of state ID after going through some minor amount of bureaucratic hassle. You are supporting a system that denies access to necessary ID documents to poor and minority citizens, and requires them to spend sums of money that are a) never asked of white voters who started driving at 16, and b) unaffordable for many of those affected. It requires people to devote a year of their life to tromping all over a big state — WHILE NOT BEING ALLOWED TO DRIVE! — to attempt to satisfy the state’s demands for proof of birth, proof that THAT STATE refused to issue.
So when you say you support voter ID, you are saying you support charging minority voters $1000 or more, and purging minority voters from the voter rolls, for having been born Black under Jim Crow. Is that what you support? If that isn’t what you support, stop saying you “support voter ID.” THIS IS WHAT VOTER ID REQUIREMENTS ARE. THIS IS WHAT THEY DO. AND THIS IS HOW THEY ARE INTENDED TO WORK.
I can’t remember exactly when I no longer was asked for my ID to get my ballot. I thought it strange then. and strange now. it’s the simplest thing in all the world to have an ID. no. its the least we should require.
Something tells me that you didn’t have to wait in line for hours to vote. Or have to figure out how to get to a ballot box miles from home because you don’t have time off on election day to go to a local precinct. The efforts to limit or restrict voter access go way beyond voter ID. The call for “voter ID” is merely a dog whistle for a whole host of restrictions designed to disenfranchise poor people and people of color. As a self-proclaimed “independent” I’m surprised you don’t know that.
“Also, you have to show ID to register to vote. Your signature is your ID when you vote.”
With all due respect, the signature is not matched up at the time of voting to verify identity. If people used an id to register, that same id would be easy to provide at voting time.
Alternatively, I’ve suggested an app for all voting judges. They can simply snap a photo of anyone that doesn’t have their id. Those photos can then be matched up later to assure the voter registration and exercise was proper.
=If people used an id to register, that same id would be easy to provide at voting time.=
So what problem are you trying to solve? The absence of voter id is not evidence of fraud. And if there is significant evidence of fraud that would be eliminated by an ID maybe someone should offer it up. And while they’re at it they can also explain how creating additional barriers and obstacles to voting makes elections “safer.” Because absent of that the intent and conclusion is clear.
After the last 2 presidential elections, it seems like everyone should agree that election procedures should be reviewed and improved. The devil is in the details and only God and OW are all-knowing (not necessarily in that order). Most reasonable people would agree that some states had voting irregularities in the last 2 elections (e.g., ballot harvesting) so these things need to be fixed. Not sure why IDs to ensure honest elections are often translated into voter suppression.
- Da big bad wolf - Thursday, Jan 20, 22 @ 6:26 am:
This has been a very educational thread. I didn’t know about the Florida id segregated hospitals situation, for example.
But the Freedom to Vote Act doesn’t take away a state’s right to ask a voter for an id. From NBC news: “If states choose to require voter ID, the bill would create a national standard of acceptable forms; the standard would allow a wider range of identifying documents — and electronic copies.”