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*** UPDATED x1 *** House Firearm Safety & Reform Working Group rolls out its new bill

Friday, Dec 2, 2022 - Posted by Rich Miller

* Tribune

Though Illinois is considered to have some of the strongest gun laws in the country, national researchers are recommending additional steps to ensure the public is safe from firearm violence.

A 16-page report by Johns Hopkins Center for Gun Violence Solutions, released Thursday, recommends barring gun permits — even with parental or guardian sponsorship — for those younger than 21,banning large-capacity magazines and strengthening the state’s red flag law.

The report comes five months after a mass shooting in Highland Park, in which a man with a history of threatening violence and posting violent gun-related images online allegedly opened fire with a military-assault-type weapon, killing seven people and wounding dozens of others at an Independence Day parade. Three 30-round magazines were recovered.

The report also lands as the Illinois legislature is set to consider gun safety laws.

The report is here.

* HB 5855 was introduced yesterday by Rep. Bob Morgan

Amends the Illinois State Police Law of the Civil Administrative Code of Illinois. Provides that the Division of Criminal Investigation of the Illinois State Police shall conduct other investigations as provided by law, including, but not limited to, investigations of human trafficking, illegal drug trafficking, and illegal firearms trafficking. Provides that the Division of Criminal Investigation shall provide statewide coordination and strategy pertaining to firearm-related intelligence, firearms trafficking interdiction, and investigations. Amends the Firearm Owners Identification Card Act. Eliminates provisions that permit a person under 21 years of age who is not an active duty member of the United States Armed Forces or the Illinois National Guard to obtain a Firearm Owner’s Identification Card with parental consent. Amends the Wildlife Code. Provides that when a person under 21 years of age is hunting under the supervision of a adult, the adult must possess a Firearm Owners Identification Card. Amends the Firearms Restraining Order Act. Provides that the State’s Attorney of the county where the petition is filed may act as a friend of the court in any action filed under the Act. Provides that a petitioner may request a one-year (rather than 6-month) firearms restraining order. Amends the Criminal Code of 2012. Makes it unlawful to manufacture, deliver, sell, or purchase or cause to be manufactured, delivered, sold, or purchased or cause to be possessed by another, an assault weapon, assault weapon attachment, .50 caliber rifle, or .50 caliber cartridge. Makes it unlawful for any person to knowingly possess an assault weapon, .50 caliber rifle, or .50 caliber cartridge 300 days after the effective date of the amendatory Act, except possession of weapons registered with the Illinois State Police in the time provided. Provides exemptions and penalties. Prohibits the manufacture, delivery, sale, purchase, or possession of large capacity ammunition feeding devices. Defines terms. Provides exemptions and penalties. Makes other changes. Effective immediately.

* From Rep. Morgan…

Illinois Democrats today introduced the Protect Illinois Communities Act into the state House of Representatives; HB5855 is a comprehensive legislative package that they hope will set a national standard for gun safety laws.

The package, introduced by House Firearm Safety & Reform Working Group Chair, State Rep. Bob Morgan (D-Deerfield), will:

Ban assault weapons immediately, require registration of existing weapons, prevent future sales of ammunition magazines with 10+ rounds, and prohibit rapid-fire devices that turn weapons into fully automatic guns;

Hold gun manufacturers or retailers responsible who market firearms products through deceptive marketing practices;

Establish an interdisciplinary state-wide strike team within the Illinois State Police, in concert with the Department of Justice and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, to combat the influx of illegal guns across state lines into Illinois;

Remove the ability for people under 21 to own firearms and ammunition, with exception for those serving in the U.S. Military or the National Guard, as well as allowing hunting and sports shooting for minors with guardian supervision;

Strengthen Firearm Restraining Order laws to keep firearms from dangerous persons.

Rep. Morgan, who represents Highland Park and several other northern suburbs, led the Illinois State House Firearm Safety and Reform Working Group, which met with gun violence survivors, policy experts, faith and community leaders, and law enforcement officials across the state in crafting the legislative package.

“Gun violence is destroying families and communities from East St. Louis to Highland Park to Chicago, and this moment demands urgency,” said Rep. Morgan. “It is time that we had the political courage to admit that guns are a problem, and that we can do something about it. This gun reform package will reduce gun deaths in Illinois, and it is long past time for us to step up and reform the laws which have enabled this gun violence to continue.”

“Whether you’re in the city, or the suburbs, or in a rural area, the reality is gun violence is affecting every corner of our state,” said Rep. La Shawn K. Ford, who serves as part of the working group. “Particularly when it comes to our youth, we are losing an alarming number of our children every year. Every loss is a lasting tragedy that permanently scars families, friends and communities. We have to take action.”

The legislation will be discussed at several subject matter hearings, and will first be heard in early December, more details to follow. Those interested in supporting the legislation are encouraged to submit witness slips in support in advance of the hearing. Status updates on the bill and steps supporters can take can be found at: https://www.repbobmorgan.com/firearm-safety-and-reform-working-group/

* Press release…

Today, the Gun Violence Prevention PAC (G-PAC), Giffords, and Brady released the following statements in response to the introduction of a new bill that would ban the sale of assault weapons and large-capacity magazines in Illinois. The introduction of the possible new measure comes five months after the devastating July 4th tragedy in Highland Park. Illinois has experienced about 55 mass shootings this year, so far, according to the Gun Violence Archive.

“Today’s announcement is the culmination of the tireless work being done by Illinois’ gun safety advocates, who continue to lead the fight for the future of our communities,” said Kathleen Sances, President and CEO of G-PAC.“We applaud Representative Bob Morgan and the working group for stepping up to address the gun violence epidemic. In the absence of a federal ban, Illinois is long overdue for a statewide ban on weapons that continue to kill so many, not only in Chicago or Highland Park, but in Crest Hill, Decatur, East Saint Louis, Elgin, Joliet, Peoria, Rockford, Romeoville, Wheeling, and Yorkville. We don’t have to live like this, and we certainly don’t have to watch our neighbors die senselessly. We look forward to reviewing the bill and continuing to work in support of needed gun safety solutions – too many lives are on the line.”

Earlier this year, G-PAC launched #HaltTheAssault, a new campaign dedicated to calling on Illinois state lawmakers to ban the sale and possession of assault weapons and large-capacity magazines. The initiative hopes to make Illinois the eighth and ninth state, respectively, to enforce these measures.

“Months after the nation watched a small community’s 4th of July parade end in a senseless and horrifying mass shooting, the Illinois legislature is finally acting to prevent more tragedies,” said Sean Holihan, state legislative director for Giffords. “Giffords stands with the people of Highland Park, GPAC, and Rep. Bob Morgan, who are working towards banning assault weapons and large capacity magazines - the same weapons of war that were used on the 4th of July.”

“Brady applauds the introduction of these common-sense, comprehensive policies that will better protect communities across Illinois,” said Brady President Kris Brown. “Illinois already has some of the strongest gun laws in the country, and the policies in this bill, including new age restrictions and extended restraining orders, will add to that strong record. Most importantly, an assault weapons and large capacity ban would help prevent tragedies like Highland Park from occurring again. Weapons of war have no place in our communities, and every day we wait to renew and reinstate the Assault Weapons Ban, more lives will be lost. Brady thanks Representative Bob Morgan for his leadership on this important issue.”

Assault weapons and large-capacity magazines make mass shootings deadlier in Illinois. Research finds that in shootings where assault weapons or high-capacity magazines are used, 155 percent more people are shot, and 47 percent more people are killed.

Studies on both the lapsed federal assault weapons ban and state-level assault weapons bans show that such laws help prevent mass shooting deaths and decrease the diversion of assault weapons to criminal use.

I’ll post opposing viewpoints if/when I receive them.

*** UPDATE *** Richard Pearson with the Illinois State Rifle Association…

With the filing of HB5855 it seems Christmas has come early for G-PAC and other groups that are committed to taking away the Second Amendment rights of law-abiding Illinois Citizens. We have consistently heard from anti-Second Amendment legislators that they “don’t want to take away your guns, we only want common sense gun reforms.” Under HB5855 their first step is to take away your magazines and force law-abiding citizens to register their firearms. The legislation goes beyond magazines used in semi-automatic rifles to also include magazines used in millions of commonly owned handguns. Their next step is to use that very registry to take away your firearms. The anti-gun crowd’s agenda has always been to incrementally peal back the Second Amendment rights of law-abiding Illinois citizens. The Illinois State Rifle Association will not be entering into any negotiations on this piece of legislation. Elections have consequences. We will see the State of Illinois in court should this bill be enacted into law.

       

78 Comments
  1. - Chicagonk - Friday, Dec 2, 22 @ 9:25 am:

    Rather than pass a bill which will almost certainly be litigated and likely ruled unconstitutional, it would be better if the focus was enforcing current laws on the books as well as research around crime and gun violence. Just my two cents.


  2. - Oswego Willy - Friday, Dec 2, 22 @ 9:28 am:

    ===likely ruled===

    Maybe what is needed is that clarity to the legal limits within what is being legislated here.


  3. - Demoralized - Friday, Dec 2, 22 @ 9:33 am:

    I think the gun permit ban probably wouldn’t pass muster. But I don’t think there is anything that would prohibit a large magazine ban or changes to the red flag law (depending on what the change is). Nobody has ever been able to reasonably argue, at least to me, what is so outrageous about a large capacity magazine ban. Of course you have to look at the magazine cap that they are looking at but the idea in general seems reasonable.


  4. - Donnie Elgin - Friday, Dec 2, 22 @ 10:00 am:

    This bill is a kitchen-sink approach to so-called gun safety laws. The sponsors should understand that there is enough in here to upset virtually every firearm owner - limiting FOID to under 21 - rural Illinois families that hunt - Large capacity magazines - and the so-called assault weapons ban - that will impact hundreds of thousands of Illinois firearms owners that own these types of weapons - which are among her most popular sold - Registration of existing weapons - law-abiding 2A supported will hate that. Firearm ownership in Illinois has skyrocketed in the past 3 years with 483,000 FOID applications in 2020 - compared to 160,000 just a few years ago.

    Lastly, the sponsors have to know the law would result in legal challenges that the current SCOTUS and the NYSRPA v. Bruen precedent will likely be ruled unconstitutional.


  5. - H-W - Friday, Dec 2, 22 @ 10:01 am:

    This will be an interesting year, followed by interesting elections.


  6. - Demoralized - Friday, Dec 2, 22 @ 10:07 am:

    @Donnie Elgin

    Maybe you can explain to me the opposition that people like you have to large capacity magazine bans. I understand you have to look at what they mean by large capacity but why would it be unreasonable, for example, to ban large capacity magazines. I think the standard AR-15 magazine is, what, 30 rounds? Too much in my opinion. All you are doing by allowing those high capacity magazines to be sold is to make it easier for mass shooters to complete their crimes more efficiently. So tell me what exactly is unconstitutional about telling someone you can’t buy a magazine that shoots say 50 bullets? It’s just an asinine argument to make to me.


  7. - Feature not a Bug - Friday, Dec 2, 22 @ 10:07 am:

    “The sponsors should understand that there is enough in here to upset virtually every firearm owner - limiting FOID to under 21“


  8. - Papa2008 - Friday, Dec 2, 22 @ 10:09 am:

    I predict an epidemic of sinking john boats in the middle of the night. /s


  9. - The Real Downstate - Friday, Dec 2, 22 @ 10:09 am:

    ==rural Illinois families that hunt==

    I think this may be an underrated element here. This bill would completely change youth hunting and upset a lot of people.


  10. - Rich Miller - Friday, Dec 2, 22 @ 10:10 am:

    ===likely be ruled unconstitutional.===

    Only one way to find out.


  11. - Chicagonk - Friday, Dec 2, 22 @ 10:13 am:

    Looking through the proposed bill, possession of an auto switch would be a Class 2 felony (while possession of a machine gun is a Class X felony). Given they are functionally equivalent, why not make possession of an auto switch a Class X?


  12. - rtov - Friday, Dec 2, 22 @ 10:20 am:

    Some good points in the bill, some bad ones. We have learned through the Safe-T Act passage and subsequent edits that going forward we can just expect bad bills to get passed, even though the drafters know they are bad. That is terrible governance.


  13. - Donnie Elgin - Friday, Dec 2, 22 @ 10:25 am:

    “why would it be unreasonable, for example, to ban large capacity magazines…It’s just an asinine argument to make to me.”

    No need to argue anything - each year manufacturers sell hundreds of thousands of 9mm pistols that come standard with 17-round mags. Additionally, most AR-style rifles have 30-round magazines. Every one of those weapons is initially sold only to folks that have passed federal background checks. There are mountains of data that show 90 percent of all gun crimes are committed by folks not legally in possession of weapons. Basically, the marketplace disagrees with you.


  14. - Padraig - Friday, Dec 2, 22 @ 10:32 am:

    Will this legislation be taken up in the lame duck or new general assembly?


  15. - Donnie Elgin - Friday, Dec 2, 22 @ 10:41 am:

    ” lame duck or new general assembly?”

    WBEZ…
    Democrats added to their supermajority in last month’s elections, picking up five extra seats in the new Illinois General Assembly, which begins Jan. 12. But Morgan said there is no time to waste, and he said he expects the bill to see movement during the lame duck session


  16. - Amalia - Friday, Dec 2, 22 @ 10:42 am:

    Reframing the way under 21 use guns, check. Reframing how law enforcement investigates illegal use of guns, check. Banning assault weapons, check. Great piece of legislation, check.


  17. - Anonymusings - Friday, Dec 2, 22 @ 10:45 am:

    ” Section 99. Effective date. This Act takes effect upon becoming law.”

    “b) Except as provided in subsection (c), it is unlawful for any person within this State to knowingly manufacture, deliver, sell, purchase, or possess or cause to be manufactured, delivered, sold, or purchased a large capacity ammunition feeding device.”

    So, as written, if this were to pass, any gun owner who was legally possessing a magazine with more than ten rounds the moment before passage, would immediately become a criminal upon passage, with no means of remedying the situation, other than removing all of these devices from the State of Illinois before the law is passed.

    Leaving aside the issue of whether or not such a ban should be enacted, it should be unconscionable to citizens of the State that there is no period following passage provided for owners to come into compliance.


  18. - Rich Miller - Friday, Dec 2, 22 @ 10:49 am:

    ===upon passage===

    Passage dates and effective dates are two different things.


  19. - Demoralized - Friday, Dec 2, 22 @ 11:34 am:

    ==the marketplace disagrees with you.==

    Well that’s just as dumb of an argument.

    I find no legitimate reasons that someone should be able to possess a weapon that can fire an excessive amount of rounds at one time. We can debate what the limit should be but to be against any limit whatsoever is just ridiculous to me. Again I ask, what do you need with a magazine that can hold say 50 rounds? That, as far as I’m concerned, turns it into a weapon of war which is something an average citizen does not need nor should they have.


  20. - Rural Democrat - Friday, Dec 2, 22 @ 11:42 am:

    What would parental supervision of minors while hunting entail? Is that not already the law? Will a parent or other adult be required to sit with a 20-year-old deer hunter and supervise? This sounds a like a big city solution to a problem that is virtually non-existent in rural Illinois.


  21. - Papa2008 - Friday, Dec 2, 22 @ 11:46 am:

    = That, as far as I’m concerned, turns it into a weapon of war which is something an average citizen does not need nor should they have=
    The framers of the constitution would disagree.


  22. - NeedHasNothingToDoWithIt - Friday, Dec 2, 22 @ 11:47 am:

    Because, demoralized, need has nothing to do with it. Nearly every handgun sold is semiauto with a mag over 10 rounds, why should millions of mags have to be replaced just to make you feel better?


  23. - Demoralized - Friday, Dec 2, 22 @ 11:49 am:

    ==The framers of the constitution would disagree.==

    If you are going to use that argument then I’m pretty sure that the framers never envisioned a situation where you can fire 50 rounds at one time. This is why I hate the gun debate. The lack of reasonableness on both sides. And as far as I’m concerned those who oppose reasonable restrictions, like those on magazine sizes, show little care for the mass shooting problem. As long as they can go play army on the weekends at their local gun range then to heck with the other consequences. I just don’t get it.


  24. - Demoralized - Friday, Dec 2, 22 @ 11:50 am:

    ==why should millions of mags have to be replaced just to make you feel better?==

    And why do you support making it easier for mass shooters to kill? Because that’s exactly how I see the arguments those like you make. You simply do not care.


  25. - Demoralized - Friday, Dec 2, 22 @ 11:58 am:

    And let me be clear because I know there have been different definitions of “large magazine.” I’m talking about uber large capacity. The Hyde Park shooter fired 70 rounds in a short time. I just don’t understand why it wouldn’t be common sense to ban the sort of thing that allowed someone like that to do that?


  26. - cermak_rd - Friday, Dec 2, 22 @ 11:58 am:

    It may be unconstitutional, only one way to find out. Also making the attempt can be worth it. It will remind everyone just who is responsible the first time an assault is carried out in IL with one of those weapons that would have been banned (if the law is found unconstitutional). Knowing who the collaborators are can be clarifying.


  27. - Todd - Friday, Dec 2, 22 @ 12:04 pm:

    Demoralized —

    Need has nothing to do with it handguns have been fitted with capacity of more than 10 rounds for around a 100 years

    So you would put the father of 3 who obeys the law at a disadvantage to the carjackers that don’t why? Youve demonstrated that no matter how many hoops we legal gun owners jump through its never enough foid card, nightly background checks via CRI and DHS mental health admission plus a carry license its never enough we can never be law abiding enough to satisfy u or rep morgan

    So no ill keep my 15 & 17 round mags for my glocks for my carry guns ill keep my 20s& 30s for my ARs which are my home defense and competition guns
    Those are the standard mags and under heller and new york protected


  28. - Lurker - Friday, Dec 2, 22 @ 12:17 pm:

    If this passes, it has the potential to completely achieve the complete opposite of its intent. That is, when it gets to this gun loving SCOTUS, I foresee many Illinois gun laws being scrutinized.


  29. - Amalia - Friday, Dec 2, 22 @ 12:17 pm:

    “….my ARs which are my home defense and competition guns…” like an advert from a gun store. or a movie starring Bruce Willis.


  30. - Lurker - Friday, Dec 2, 22 @ 12:24 pm:

    And @demolalized, I assume you do not own guns for fun because things like this are not a reasonableness argument. They want them because they can. As an example, I like golf. I have 5 sets of clubs and over 10 putters that are worth $200+ each. What did I want for Christmas? A putter. It’s not sane but it’s what I like to do with my money.


  31. - JS Mill - Friday, Dec 2, 22 @ 12:25 pm:

    =limiting FOID to under 21 - rural Illinois families that hunt -=

    Zero impact. My son has been with me in the field since he was 5. At 10 he was able to pass his hunter safety course and actually hunt with me. At 20 he has has a FOID since 16 and has always hunted with me. Hit has no impact on hunting families.

    =So no ill keep my 15 & 17 round mags for my glocks for my carry guns ill keep my 20s& 30s for my ARs which are my home defense and competition guns
    Those are the standard mags and under heller and new york protected=

    and…

    =So you would put the father of 3 who obeys the law at a disadvantage to the carjackers that don’t why?=

    First, an AR is a terrible home defense weapon.
    Second, if you need that many rounds to hit a target and/or stop a potential threat, you are most likely putting innocent people including those you wish to protect at serious risk. National data on police shootings indicate about a 23% hit rate (based on the last time I looked at the data) and that means, for trained professionals, 77% of their rounds do not go where they intend them to go.

    As a non professional, you are going to put a lot of fire down range that won’t hit the intended target, especially if you are receiving fire. More shooting is not better.

    Magazine capacity is not guaranteed by the Second Amendment.

    I do think the ban on .50 cal is sort of grandstanding. Given the cost it is not a round many people shoot. Especially at $4.00 plus per round. But it also won’t hurt anyone to ban it. And the easy answer is register your gun.


  32. - Todd - Friday, Dec 2, 22 @ 12:35 pm:

    Amalia—

    I choose to what works and works well. You side should try to think about how this state will s going to do gun regulation after the foid is tossed out along with a host of other parts are f illinois law. They will call pass this bill but in the end you will have less on the books than u have today


  33. - 47th Ward - Friday, Dec 2, 22 @ 12:36 pm:

    ===I like golf. I have 5 sets of clubs and over 10 putters===

    And I’m not likely to be injured or killed if someone steals your golf clubs and goes on a putting spree.


  34. - Donnie Elgin - Friday, Dec 2, 22 @ 12:59 pm:

    “Zero impact. My son has been with me in the field since he was 5. At 10 he was able to pass his hunter safety course and actually hunt with me… has no impact on hunting families”

    That may be your experience - but the law would be a huge change. Currently, residents over 18 who have their FOID card on and who have a hunting license and hunting Safety course are free to hunt without parental supervision. With the new law that would be gone.


  35. - Amalia - Friday, Dec 2, 22 @ 1:18 pm:

    @Todd, what JS Mill said.


  36. - Lurker - Friday, Dec 2, 22 @ 1:24 pm:

    @47th
    Killed? No
    Injured? Iffy. My golf game has been terrible. 🫠

    But seriously, so many people owns these guns for the cool factor just like I do my clubs. To them, it is no difference.


  37. - JS Mill - Friday, Dec 2, 22 @ 1:27 pm:

    =It’s not sane but it’s what I like to do with my money.=

    How many people can be killed by a putter or driver in 60 seconds from a roof top during a parade?


  38. - JS Mill - Friday, Dec 2, 22 @ 1:41 pm:

    =That may be your experience - but the law would be a huge change. Currently, residents over 18 who have their FOID card on and who have a hunting license and hunting Safety course are free to hunt without parental supervision. With the new law that would be gone.=

    Huge? Hardly. Inconvenience maybe. That is about it.


  39. - Flapdoodle - Friday, Dec 2, 22 @ 1:42 pm:

    @ Demoralized ==This is why I hate the gun debate. The lack of reasonableness on both sides.==

    At least on this point we are in total agreement.

    The bill allows grandfathering assault weapons (24-1.9 (e)), so while there would be plenty of kvetching over the registration process and fee, an epidemic of sinking john boats is fortunately unlikely.

    The decision *not* to grandfather magazines larger than 10 rounds (24-1.10) is an interesting move. Courts have held that protection of equipment extends to devices and supplies necessary to operate that equipment. (I apologize for not immediately supplying a reference, but promise to do my best to do so though my haphazard record keeping may bite me on this one). But this decision will almost certainly be tested in court. Just as many niggling procedural questions will need to be answered.

    One not so niggling question is how effective the proposed ban on large capacity magazines would actually be, at least for handguns. A skilled operator can replace an empty magazine very quickly. I’m not the best marksman by far, but I can swap magazines and begin firing again in about 2.5 seconds. It’s not too far fetched to imagine that people will begin carrying spare magazines — many already do and concealable “mag holders” are readily available — because they’ll worry about getting caught short. Is it better to have one 17 round magazine on the street than two 10 round magazines?


  40. - An Almost-Former Illinoisan - Friday, Dec 2, 22 @ 1:52 pm:

    As a legal gun owner and victim of sexual violence, I disagree strongly with this legislation. 10 rounds may not be enough in a defensive situation. Especially in a world I’ve called Chicago police about shots fired in the alley behind my home, and they didn’t send a unit until almost 45 minutes later because no one was actively trying to break in.

    At least they have the decency to give us 300 days to decide whether we want to increase our chances of being victimized by violent criminals again. I’ll be long gone by then.


  41. - Oswego Willy - Friday, Dec 2, 22 @ 2:01 pm:

    Anyone comparing golf clubs to guns while discounting safety and accidents in each of their uses … that’s not a serious argument and how can one be all that serious about gun ownership?


  42. - FormerParatrooper - Friday, Dec 2, 22 @ 2:01 pm:

    This Bill does not address why people are shooting each other. Until those issues are addressed nothing will change.

    Pass the bill, I have to further jump thru hoops to keep my property. I am not out there shooting people. Nor am I inclined to do so. Those who are committing this violence are not deterred. They will not jump thru hoops. They will continue to operate as they wish.

    When this does not work as intended you will be back saying our grandfathered weapons were registered must be taken because others still committed violence. But passing the Bill will make you feel better even tho it is a false sense.


  43. - MisterJayEm - Friday, Dec 2, 22 @ 2:16 pm:

    “This bill would completely change youth hunting and upset a lot of people.”

    Oh no.

    Now do the effect of having a family member blown apart by a firearm explicitly designed for warfare.

    – MrJM


  44. - Hemi - Friday, Dec 2, 22 @ 2:19 pm:

    Correct me if I am wrong, did not the Mayor of Highland Park go on national TV and state that AR15 style weapons like that used in the July 4 shooting were illegal in her community. Guns and magazines are not the problem. Let’s identify the problem and attempt to correct it


  45. - An Almost-Former Illinoisan - Friday, Dec 2, 22 @ 2:28 pm:

    Hemi, the issue is that Highland Park had a local ban but other towns nearby did not. So the individual who murdered so many back in July just ordered a gun to a gun dealer in one of those nearby towns, and did it that way.

    Some states (e.g. Texas) will still allow sales of long guns to non-state residents if they are there in person, so it will not stop all sales to the truly determined lunatics. But it will make it significantly harder to do what the shooter did in July, as no reputable FFL would send or receive a gun banned under state law.

    That said,I still don’t think AR15s should be banned anywhere, and I don’t think banning them will pass Constitutional muster. But I also don’t think living in a state where my constitutional (not to mention natural, not to mention God-given) right to armed self-defense is constantly under attack by an unfriendly government that fails at the basic task of keeping me safe is worth it.


  46. - Demoralized - Friday, Dec 2, 22 @ 2:39 pm:

    ==(not to mention natural, not to mention God-given==

    I’ve looked over and over in the Bible and don’t see gun ownership mentioned anywhere. How about we stick to the Constitutional right and not try that ridiculous “god given right” argument.


  47. - Todd - Friday, Dec 2, 22 @ 2:39 pm:

    JS —

    ARs are very good home defense guns for a number of reasons , low recoil, stable platform, mounting accessories. . .

    “As a non professional” fine then leave it to those of us that actually live and work in this world. I’ve done enough classes and ballistic labs to know.
    Unlike most cops, I spend much more time on a range and practicing. I see how well they do when they rent ranges from us and their skill levels. My skill level is way better than 90% of them. Most of us understand that ever round sent down range has a lawyer attached to it. I’ve seen more than enough about multiple assailants in carjackings these days. And am aware that its not the movies, people don’t stop from a single gunshot unless it hits one of two places.
    Magazine capacity is protected by the Second Amendment. Mags are components of firearms and in some are essential to the operation of the gun.

    From Cali’s original decision:

    “Millions of ammunition magazines able to hold more than 10 rounds are in common use by law-abiding responsible citizens for lawful uses like self-defense. This is enough to decide that a magazine able to hold more than 10 rounds passes the Heller test and is protected by the Second Amendment. The simple test applies because a magazine is an essential mechanical part of a firearm. The size limit directly impairs one’s ability to defend one’s self.”


  48. - Donnie Elgin - Friday, Dec 2, 22 @ 2:42 pm:

    I’m in agreement with The Illinois State Rifle Association; if it passes the anti-2A amendment folks just may realize that this is a bridge too far. Judicial relief will be sought - and future elections will have consequences as this will not be a partisan issue.


  49. - Demoralized - Friday, Dec 2, 22 @ 2:42 pm:

    @Todd

    Go back and re-read my last comment. I said uber large magazines. I didn’t say anything about any current standard magazine. As I said, in some of these mass shootings they are able to get off dozens of rounds in seconds. Are you really going to argue for the right to own a 50 or a 100 round magazine? I would hope not.


  50. - Demoralized - Friday, Dec 2, 22 @ 2:46 pm:

    ==and future elections will have consequences==

    Ideas like this haven’t been kept hidden under a table. Not the first time it has come up and it won’t be the last time. I seriously doubt the Democrats in Illinois are in electoral danger over stuff like this.


  51. - JS Mill - Friday, Dec 2, 22 @ 2:46 pm:

    =That said,I still don’t think AR15s should be banned anywhere, and I don’t think banning them will pass Constitutional muster. But I also don’t think living in a state where my constitutional (not to mention natural, not to mention God-given) right to armed self-defense is constantly under attack by an unfriendly government that fails at the basic task of keeping me safe is worth it.=

    Why can’t I have a mini-gun or a full auto BAR or tank for that matter? Guns have had regulation placed upon them (that meets constitutional standards) since the 1934 national firearms act. So, for all of those that think the second amendment is the only one, it has been limited for almost 90 years.

    =This Bill does not address why people are shooting each other. Until those issues are addressed nothing will change.=

    We generally know why people shoot other people. So are you asking for mandatory psychological services for people?

    If gun laws are ineffective, tell me why the 1994 assault weapons ban resulted in significant reduction in gun related homicides and violence?


  52. - Demoralized - Friday, Dec 2, 22 @ 2:48 pm:

    ==the anti-2A amendment folks==

    Supporting certain regulations doesn’t make you anti-2nd Amendment because I’m most certainly not anti-2nd Amendment. Far from it.


  53. - 47th Ward - Friday, Dec 2, 22 @ 2:51 pm:

    ===Their next step is to use that very registry to take away your firearms.===

    That is simply not true Mr. Pearson. Nothing about registering .50 caliber rifles runs afoul of the 2nd Amendment. In no way does a registry infringe on one’s right to keep and bear arms.

    If somebody has a .50 caliber rifle in their possession, I think the state police should know. That ain’t no deer rifle.


  54. - Hemi - Friday, Dec 2, 22 @ 3:01 pm:

    Yes other jurisdictions sell guns that are used in crimes in Illinois. This bill can pass and other jurisdictions will continue to sell gun that are used in crimes in Illinois. The guns nor the size of the magazine are not the problem. People are the problem. The state of mind is the problem. Instead of passing useless bills then spending money defending these laws let’s identify the problem and spend the resources to correct the problem


  55. - Donnie Elgin - Friday, Dec 2, 22 @ 3:04 pm:

    “Nothing about registering .50 caliber rifles”

    Read the bill - any “so-called” assault rifle that was purchased prior to passage would need to be registered with the state - that would include AR-15 style rifles that chamber the very common 5.56×45mm or the .223 Remington type cartridges - these are also perhaps the second most popular rifles behind a 22 cal rifles. This is not limited to some scarey and rarely used 50 cal’s.


  56. - Lurker - Friday, Dec 2, 22 @ 3:04 pm:

    @OW
    I’m comparing how the gun owners I know view their guns. It is sport and showing off. They want the newest and the best. For some it’s cars, for others like me it is golf, for others it is guns. That’s how they view it.


  57. - JS Mill - Friday, Dec 2, 22 @ 3:09 pm:

    =The simple test applies because a magazine is an essential mechanical part of a firearm. The size limit directly impairs one’s ability to defend one’s self.”=

    A lot of babbling in your post. Bottom line is you can have a 5 round mag and still effectively “defend” yourself. Last time I checked, no one is on record having to defend themselves in a sustained gun fight with a foreign army.

    And an AR is a poor choice for a home defense record as most experts will point out given the fact the the round can travel throughout the house and not just the intended target. A “professional” would know that. Clearly you are not.

    = The guns nor the size of the magazine are not the problem. =

    Again, if you believe that, explain the impact of the 1994 assault weapons ban.

    For all the second amendment people here, why aren’t you going to court to eliminate the ban on full auto weapons and things like a .50 BMG? Or a tank etc.? These are established and constitutional limitations on guns.


  58. - Nagidam - Friday, Dec 2, 22 @ 3:11 pm:

    @47th Ward

    ===Their next step is to use that very registry to take away your firearms.===

    I read Pearsons’s statement differently. I think what he is saying is that the next step after registration of your firearms is the anti-crowd will ask for a bill to take the firearms away. They will use the registration as a means to find who has these future banned firearms.


  59. - FormerParatrooper - Friday, Dec 2, 22 @ 3:16 pm:

    ==We generally know why people shoot other people. So are you asking for mandatory psychological services for people?

    If gun laws are ineffective, tell me why the 1994 assault weapons ban resulted in significant reduction in gun related homicides and violence?===

    It was pointed out on this very blog mental health was not the driver of violence as most mentally ill people are victims and not perpetrators the violence. I was admonished by mentioning some of the high profile mass shooters were mentally ill.

    The AWBs effectiveness has been debated by both sides. One side it was a significant help, the other said it was not. Fact Check says both are wrong as they cherry picked the data to support their beliefs.

    As far as the items you listed, you can own them or more. Except Illinois prohibits a few items in the NFA. If you have the money I suppose you could buy a special exemptions?

    That leads to my question, how does creating more hoops for me and others like me make it difficult on those who are responsible for the violence? We are being responsible for our rights, we even pay to have our rights, how much more you want from us? What I want is those responsible to be held accountable. Where is the compromise?


  60. - 47th Ward - Friday, Dec 2, 22 @ 3:18 pm:

    It’s not an argument to oppose the bill. It is only a scare tactic. And it’s tiresome. Argue against the registry’s impact if you can, not on some possible future action by gun control proponents.

    Guns should be registered like cars IMO, but this bill does not go anywhere near that far.


  61. - don the legend - Friday, Dec 2, 22 @ 3:23 pm:

    Todd, I hope you are a better shot than you are a typist.


  62. - Nagidam - Friday, Dec 2, 22 @ 3:25 pm:

    ===It’s not an argument to oppose the bill. It is only a scare tactic.===

    Yet here we are with them taking away mags first when they said they would never take anything. Drip, Drip.


  63. - An Almost-Former Illinoisan - Friday, Dec 2, 22 @ 3:26 pm:

    JS Mill, you should be able to own a full-auto or any other firearm. The fact that our current laws have long violated your Second Amendment rights to do so does not mean that those violations are any less violations. A long-standing violation does not become correct simply by being long-standing.

    But more to the point, that is not the question at issue with the new bill. The issue is whether the new restrictions introduced by this bill are valid. They are not. They are in fact invalid under the current SCOTUS jurisprudence, and while it may take a while to get there, the current SCOTUS will agree with that and strike down this law in the future.

    Demoralized, government exists to protect natural rights. It may create additional ones,but it may not infringe on ones that already exist and that it did not create. The Constitutions of the State of Illinois and of the United States recognize our right to armed self-defense, but they are not the ultimate source of that right.


  64. - Oswego Willy - Friday, Dec 2, 22 @ 3:31 pm:

    ===I’m comparing how the gun owners I know view their guns. It is sport and showing off.===

    Do they also keep their golf clubs in a “golf safe” and buy locks for the individual clubs too.

    That’s how responsible ownership would view is far different than …flippant… comparisons.

    It’s not the same. Nope.

    When I get a “golf safe”, need a FOID card for my golf clubs, and don’t need for safety locks on each club…


  65. - Rich Miller - Friday, Dec 2, 22 @ 3:32 pm:

    ===resulted in significant reduction in gun related homicides===

    It resulted in significant reductions of mass shootings.


  66. - Papa2008 - Friday, Dec 2, 22 @ 3:43 pm:

    =If somebody has a .50 caliber rifle in their possession, I think the state police should know. That ain’t no deer rifle.=

    Fully aware these are not to what you refer, but there are plenty of .50 caliber black powder rifles in Illinois. Just using this to point out the uninformed use of an arbitrary number being in the legislation.


  67. - Amalia - Friday, Dec 2, 22 @ 3:45 pm:

    “Their next step is to use that very registry to take away your firearms.” Banning one particular type of gun that is used in mass killings and making sure those who currently have it keep it is not that. Stop your fear mongering. But you can turn your guns in at the next law enforcement event and get prizes.


  68. - 47th Ward - Friday, Dec 2, 22 @ 3:46 pm:

    The key word is “rifle,” not “.50 caliber.”


  69. - Anyone Remember - Friday, Dec 2, 22 @ 3:50 pm:

    ” … my ARs which are my home defense and competition guns … .”

    As was noted Wednesday … “Until disarming in 2005, a prominent ‘proscribed organization’ used, as their weapon of choice, AR-15 style weapons. Hardly seems a ’sporting rifle’ … .”


  70. - Todd - Friday, Dec 2, 22 @ 4:00 pm:

    JS — Why can’t I have a mini-gun or a full auto BAR or tank for that matter? Guns have had regulation placed upon them (that meets constitutional standards) since the 1934 national firearms act. So, for all of those that think the second amendment is the only one, it has been limited for almost 90 year
    In 30 states you can. Illinois outlaws the possession of full autos for civilians. As for a tank you can have one. Nothing in state or federal law prohibits it. If you wish to have an operable main gun, you can get the license for that too.

    And again you don’t know ballistics of the .223. tell me how many ballistic labs you’ve say through or conducted. 00 is worse in a home environment. I’ll be happy to put my resume up against your in this subject matter

    47 – I thin any registration runs afoul of the 2A and I think it runs afoul of Article 6 of the Illinois constitution to boot. And by experience Chicago used a registry to enact a gun ban. Cali used a registry to ban more semi-autos and when they did send notice to the owners that they had to surrender them or move them out of state. History can be a beotch.


  71. - 47th Ward - Friday, Dec 2, 22 @ 4:09 pm:

    Thankfully Todd, what you think doesn’t matter. Challenge the law, if it passes, and we’ll find out if you’re right. Until then, we disagree.


  72. - Demoralized - Friday, Dec 2, 22 @ 4:14 pm:

    ==The Constitutions of the State of Illinois and of the United States recognize our right to armed self-defense, but they are not the ultimate source of that right.==

    Lol. They absolutely are the ultimate source when it comes to our law. Arguing otherwise is laughable.


  73. - JS Mill - Friday, Dec 2, 22 @ 4:35 pm:

    =In 30 states you can. Illinois outlaws the possession of full autos for civilians. As for a tank you can have one. Nothing in state or federal law prohibits it. If you wish to have an operable main gun, you can get the license for that too.=

    Yes, and you need an FFL to get onen and they are incredibly difficult to get. And States that allow full auto are subject to the federal laws, Otherwise known as regulation. I appreciate you proving my point. You can’t just get a full auto gun, and the new proposed law is making people do essentially the same thing.

    =And again you don’t know ballistics of the .223. tell me how many ballistic labs you’ve say through or conducted. 00 is worse in a home environment. I’ll be happy to put my resume up against your in this subject matter=

    Lol. Now it is about resumes? Do you have one for writing?


  74. - JS Mill - Friday, Dec 2, 22 @ 4:39 pm:

    =Demoralized, government exists to protect natural rights. It may create additional ones,but it may not infringe on ones that already exist and that it did not create.=

    Umm…in the United States of America you are wrong. We have 27 of those changes on record.


  75. - Class of 80 - Friday, Dec 2, 22 @ 4:45 pm:

    Just the beginning of the mid-term blue wave progressive mandates in Illinois.


  76. - Todd - Friday, Dec 2, 22 @ 4:50 pm:

    47 — ur right, until my point is proven in court like it has been on a number of issues, including Illinois’ ban on carry.

    But, I’m sure we will get to see how many registration schemes actually existed in 1791.

    meanwhile, I think Illinois taxpayers will be sending our lawyers grandchildren to very expensive law schools with the fees that will get racked up. Chicago paid us over $1.2 mill

    Wonder if any of these legislators are willing to be on the hook for the fees when we win.


  77. - 47th Ward - Friday, Dec 2, 22 @ 4:53 pm:

    Todd, our militia is poorly regulated, even by 1791 standards. It is jeopardizing the security of our free state.


  78. - Sances - Friday, Dec 2, 22 @ 5:26 pm:

    So Christmas came early? All I want for Christmas is for everyone to make a donation to Rich’s charity. I just made one. Who’s next?

    https://www.justgiving.com/fundraising/rich-miller6?status=@CapitolFax%20https://capitolfax.com/2022/12/02/house-firearm-safety-reform-working-group-rolls-out-its-new-bill/


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