* AP…
Gov. Bruce Rauner says public school teachers who aren’t union members shouldn’t have to pay union fees - the same policy he’s tried to enforce among state government workers.
Rauner said Wednesday that teachers are not covered by his executive order lifting the state requirement that non-union members pay so-called “fair share” fees. The fees are intended to cover union activities that benefit all employees.
Rauner said the policy “should apply to teachers” but “we’ll deal with that later.” He declined to elaborate at an event sponsored by the Citizens Club of Springfield.
Discuss.
*** UPDATE 1 *** The governor’s entire quote…
“Most AFSCME members, and I love them dearly, and I’ve had many of them come up to me and say, ‘Keep fighting, Bruce, on the forced-union-dues collection issue. And I’ve had teachers come up to me from around the state, ‘Hey, can your executive order on forced union dues apply to teachers?’ and I say, ‘No, it doesn’t, it just applies to government workers with me.’ I believe it should apply to teachers and we’ll deal with that later.”
A true believer, people.
* From the IFT’s Aviva Bowen…
The Governor either has no understanding or no regard for the law, and I’m not sure which is worse. This is just another reckless attempt to take away teachers’ voice and ability to advocate for their students – and it does nothing to address our state’s real challenges.
*** UPDATE 2 *** IEA President Cinda Klickna…
It is interesting that the only teacher voices the governor seems to hear are those of the tiny number who don’t wish to pay their fair share, while he ignores the overwhelming majority of teachers and education support professionals who choose to belong to a union. They work, through their union, for high quality teaching and learning conditions.
Public education is crucial to Illinois’ future. Our 130 thousand members reject the governor’s attacks on the middle class and will continue to advocate, through their association, for high quality teaching and learning conditions, because that’s what our students need and that is what will get Illinois back on track.
Regarding the governor’s comments on collective bargaining and local teacher activism, we’re surprised that Gov. Rauner would come out against local control of public schools.
Governor Rauner is suggesting that teachers should be seen but not heard — that teachers should do as they’re told and that their professional expertise should be ignored.
We continue to believe that teachers have a better understanding of schools and students than politicians. Teachers are the experts on what will work in our schools and what will help children learn. It might displease the governor, but we won’t be silent.
- How Ironic - Wednesday, Apr 22, 15 @ 11:09 am:
I think Rauner should start to hand out colored t-shirts at these events. It would give those participating a feeling of ‘inclusiveness’ and show those around that they belong in a group.
The slogan could be “Lower Pay - Less Representation!” or “We’re United To Drive Wages Down!”
- Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Apr 22, 15 @ 11:10 am:
=== Rauner said the policy “should apply to teachers” but “we’ll deal with that later.” He declined to elaborate…==
Sonny Corleone. If I’m not against you, give it a few minutes, I’ll take you on too.
Why is the governor more about confrontation, and less about cooperation?
“My goal in the next 100 days is to make sure just about every person, group, agency, legislator, jurist, union worker, non-union worker, … man, woman, child… knows I’m the boss, and they’re not,” said no other governor but Rauner. Ever.
- Juvenal - Wednesday, Apr 22, 15 @ 11:12 am:
Biting off more than you can chew, then asking for seconds.
Good luck.
My understanding is that all of those fair-share AFSCME memmbers rushed to join the union, although I don’t think we have seen an update from AFSCME in awhile.
I suspect this will be the same boon for IEA and IFT.
- Demoralized - Wednesday, Apr 22, 15 @ 11:12 am:
If they aren’t union members then they aren’t paying fees to begin with.
This talk doesn’t surprise me. He’s going after unions everywhere. Destroy the unions and you can cut benefits and wages. That’s his ultimate goal.
- MrJM - Wednesday, Apr 22, 15 @ 11:13 am:
After the primary.
After the general.
After the holidays.
After the inauguration.
After the budget address.
But soon, very soon…
– MrJM
- VanillaMan - Wednesday, Apr 22, 15 @ 11:13 am:
Rauner is losing, so he doubles down.
He’s flailing.
Throw him an anchor, he can’t seem to buy a clue even with those millions.
- Carhartt Representative - Wednesday, Apr 22, 15 @ 11:14 am:
If a teacher doesn’t want to join a union, it’s not like there probably isn’t a charter school across the street that pays less and doesn’t have any job security. It seems like a perfect fit.
- Mister M - Wednesday, Apr 22, 15 @ 11:17 am:
Maybe it’s a negotiating ploy, but it is tiresome to see yet another theme that ain’t gonna fly. And in today’s world, everyone should understand that “right to work” is exactly the opposite of what the tag implies, particularly in a patronage-charged public service environment. All non-appointee employees are realizing that they need the unions as protection. If the “union bosses” act responsibly and change what that “boss” tag implies, they can be the adults in the room.
- VanillaMan - Wednesday, Apr 22, 15 @ 11:19 am:
“He’s a true believer…
He is going to discover that his church is about as popular here in Illinois as Scientology is in Utah.
- Makandadawg - Wednesday, Apr 22, 15 @ 11:20 am:
Nothing fires up the union base like a bad boss. Keep up the good work Governor.
- Obamas Puppy - Wednesday, Apr 22, 15 @ 11:23 am:
I guess eliminating fair share dues makes money magically appear in the Illinois state treasury.
- Norseman - Wednesday, Apr 22, 15 @ 11:24 am:
Z needs to write Rauner a new script. This is one is too old and not working.
- Crispy - Wednesday, Apr 22, 15 @ 11:27 am:
@Juvenal: Only have anecdotes, not firm numbers–but in our medium-sized downstate school district (in the 18th congressional), all the several dozen fair share holdouts, except one, jumped to full membership after the governor started the push against AFSCME. If the “fair share” message is working this poorly among teachers in such a conservative part of the state, I can’t imagine it’s doing great elsewhere.
- D.P.Gumby - Wednesday, Apr 22, 15 @ 11:27 am:
He also sits looking in the mirror saying “I’m good enough, I’m smart enough and Dog gone it, People Like me”
- AnonymousOne - Wednesday, Apr 22, 15 @ 11:27 am:
What a Negative Ned, Donnie Downer the (some) people have elected. Productive? Hardly. Destructive, yes. Other than bad mouthing workers, I don’t see anything else going on here.
- downstate commissioner - Wednesday, Apr 22, 15 @ 11:29 am:
@ Demoralized: Maybe it is an individual district thing: My wife paid “fair share” to the union from the beginning, some 30 years: it was deducted from her check every pay period by the school district, so we never missed it. Neither of us had a problem with it, and it didn’t seem to be that big of a deal to union members, who talked about negotiations, etc. in front of her.
Think Rauner is going to eat this one, too.
- Big Joe - Wednesday, Apr 22, 15 @ 11:30 am:
The public school teachers in my district have never had to join the union to work. And even the ones that did join had the ability to deny the portion of their dues that went to IPACE. Rauner is speakin’ inaccuracies.
- Politix - Wednesday, Apr 22, 15 @ 11:31 am:
I’ma need an optometrist for all the eye rolling I’ve done this week.
- Shanks - Wednesday, Apr 22, 15 @ 11:32 am:
Anything to take money and benefits from the working class…
- Politix - Wednesday, Apr 22, 15 @ 11:37 am:
File under Lying Liars who Lie too Much:
“Most AFSCME members, and I love them dearly,”
“and I’ve had many of them come up to me and say, ‘Keep fighting, Bruce, on the forced-union-dues collection issue.”
“And I’ve had teachers come up to me from around the state, ‘Hey, can your executive order on forced union dues apply to teachers?’”
No. Stop it right now.
- Frenchie Mendoza - Wednesday, Apr 22, 15 @ 11:41 am:
First, Rauner is lying. AFSCME members are not coming up to him and begging him to keep fighting the “forced union” collection issue.
Second, if you’re an AFSCME member, aren’t you paying full share? Why are you an AFSCME member and asking someone to keep fighting for something that doesn’t impact you?
Third, Rauner is a liar.
- RNUG - Wednesday, Apr 22, 15 @ 11:46 am:
== If a teacher doesn’t want to join a union, it’s not like there probably isn’t a charter school across the street that pays less and doesn’t have any job security. It seems like a perfect fit. ==
Or any number of schools ran by various religious organizations.
- RNUG - Wednesday, Apr 22, 15 @ 11:48 am:
“… I’ve had many of them come up to me …”
Maybe Rauner should hand out red w/white lettering Rauner T-shirts … so his supporters can be seen in the vast fields of green.
- Wordslinger - Wednesday, Apr 22, 15 @ 11:49 am:
Rauner needs to cut some testimonial spot featuring all those AFSCME members and teachers who keep coming up to him.
- JS Mill - Wednesday, Apr 22, 15 @ 11:49 am:
I have 1 teacher paying “fair share” out of 102.
The number is very low typically because the difference in full dues is pretty small. Other than a few districts that are non-union (I only know of one in our area) most require fair share. I am sure there are a few that do not, but I don’t know of any.
Anyone not wanting to pay fair share can also work in a private or parochial school.
While bargaining and contracts can be challenging it really is not that much of an issue where I am at. The process actually works pretty well. At the end of the day it comes down to the local culture, are you in it for kids or not.
Money and benefits cannot overcome a bad culture. Conversely, culture can overcome a lot of obstacles. I would guess this is true for other areas of endeavor and, if it is, that says a lot about our political culture in Illinois.
- JS Mill - Wednesday, Apr 22, 15 @ 11:51 am:
@RNUG- Good one!
Isn’t this the same guy that said he talked to MJM and Cullerton on election night? Me thinks he might be exaggerating a wee bit.
- Wordslinger - Wednesday, Apr 22, 15 @ 11:51 am:
Remeber all the grief that Qunn got for his alleged “class warfare” rhetoric directed at Rauner?
Well, forget the rhetoric, Rauner is waging class warfare for real and for keeps.
- Honeybear - Wednesday, Apr 22, 15 @ 11:55 am:
There are two things “attitudes” and “behaviors” and they are very different and MUST not be confused. “I love them dearly” is an attitude (as perfidious as it is). Gov. Rauners “behaviors” show he does not. Behaviors Bruce Behaviors only.
- Proud retired teacher and union member - Wednesday, Apr 22, 15 @ 12:00 pm:
IFT got it right. We used to deal with superintendents like Ruiner, where you couldn’t tell if he really had no idea what it was like in a classroom (because few of them were ever teachers!!!) OR — they knew and just didn’t care.
- Small Town Girl - Wednesday, Apr 22, 15 @ 12:00 pm:
The statement that he “loves” AFSCME members, or any union members for that matter, just might be his biggest lie yet.
- Honeybear - Wednesday, Apr 22, 15 @ 12:01 pm:
Juvenal, here’s your update. Just around 1100 fairshares left in the state. All this for 1100. In my local of 850 only 33 fairshares left. The biggest problem is finding these people! We spent 30 minutes last meeting going over the list trying to see who knew them and where they were!
- Shanks - Wednesday, Apr 22, 15 @ 12:02 pm:
I want to know what AFSMCE union member/employee came up to Bruce and commended him!? Who does that!?
Everybody knows that being in the union their wages and benefits are better than if it were non-union. Bruce is lying through his teeth.
- Carhartt Representative - Wednesday, Apr 22, 15 @ 12:04 pm:
=Rauner needs to cut some testimonial spot featuring all those AFSCME members and teachers who keep coming up to him.=
Raun Love?
- Secret Square - Wednesday, Apr 22, 15 @ 12:19 pm:
Over/under on when we start seeing protest marches, sit-ins, etc. at the Capitol?
- NewWestSuburbanGOP'er - Wednesday, Apr 22, 15 @ 12:19 pm:
So, why doesn’t the media call him out on it?
- Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Apr 22, 15 @ 12:31 pm:
===Over/under on when we start seeing protest marches, sit-ins, etc. at the Capitol?===
And…
===So, why doesn’t the media call him out on it?===
They kinda go together here…
The negotiations are ongoing, labor keeping their powder dry keeps Rauner from pivoting off “Bad Unions, see them protesting!”
Being silent in the media until the interworkings of a proposal is at the voting point help neither. Both sides need silence to reach a compromise.
And let’s be very clear; Rauner wants prtesters surrounding the Dome, on the steps, inside the Dome. It empowers the Governor, giving Rauner “leverage” to seem like he’s fighting “for us”.
A lockout, silent, empty offices, phones ringing and ringing…that damages Rauner. “Where is everybody” speaks louder than any bull horn or crowd chant ever could, given where both parties are.
- The Equalizer - Wednesday, Apr 22, 15 @ 12:32 pm:
I’m sure there is a line of AFSCME members want to come up to you and tell you something there Bruce.
- Anon. - Wednesday, Apr 22, 15 @ 12:35 pm:
==I believe it should apply to teachers and we’ll deal with that later.==
Will that be before or after “we” extend the EO to apply to Missouri?
- Wordslinger - Wednesday, Apr 22, 15 @ 12:37 pm:
Rauner would love the national publicity of Madison type marches on the Dome.
The difference is, Walker had the votes in the Assembly, Rauner does not, not even among the GOP, in the GA.
- Kurt in Springfield - Wednesday, Apr 22, 15 @ 12:38 pm:
“Most AFSCME members, and I love them dearly, and I’ve had many of them come up to me and say, ‘Keep fighting, Bruce, on the forced-union-dues collection issue.”
Okay, I know it was mentioned before, but an AFSCME member pays full dues. People who pay fair share are not considered members of AFSCME. They do not have voting rights to elect Local leaders or to vote on the contract.
Therefore, if what he says is true, members are actually encouraging Rauner’s tactics because the tactics are boosting membership. My agency has the highest membership in its history. Thanks BVR. Keep it up! /snark
- Jack Stephens - Wednesday, Apr 22, 15 @ 12:38 pm:
@ow:
Yup! That is exactly what Bruce wants. And the unions need to resist. They should have TV commercials ready
With hungry crying babies and schmaltzy music. Like the abused animal commercials! Then tag it like a certain former Guv did with “What’s He Thinking?”
- Carl Nyberg - Wednesday, Apr 22, 15 @ 12:45 pm:
Isn’t “fair share” both based on federal court rulings & explicit in the collective bargaining agreement?
Haven’t the opinions of the AG & Comptroller gone against Gov. Rauner on this?
Gov. Rauner, does this quote sound familiar?
==The Governor shall have the supreme executive power, and shall be responsible for the faithful execution of the laws.==
If Gov. Rauner isn’t following US law and the collective bargaining agreement, he’s derelict in his duties.
- Wordslinger - Wednesday, Apr 22, 15 @ 12:46 pm:
“Most AFSCME members, and I love them dearly…”
Brings to mind Mel Brooks as King Louis saying “pull!”
- Juice - Wednesday, Apr 22, 15 @ 12:55 pm:
Maybe the Governor, since he’s not a reader, thinks AFSCME stands for the Association of Faceless Sympathetic Communications that my Mind Entertains, and is confusing whatever is going on in his internal dialogue with having an actual conversation with a union member.
- Buzzie - Wednesday, Apr 22, 15 @ 12:55 pm:
The appointment of the new State Superintendent is all that is needed to verify how anti-public education Rauner is.
- Keyser Soze - Wednesday, Apr 22, 15 @ 12:59 pm:
A rounding error here, a rounding error there, and pretty soon you have real rounding. Sorry, I couldn’t help it.
- MrJM - Wednesday, Apr 22, 15 @ 1:14 pm:
“[If] you’re an AFSCME member, aren’t you paying full share? Why are you an AFSCME member and asking someone to keep fighting for something that doesn’t impact you?”
Frenchie Mendoza is correct. Rauner’s AFSCME lie doesn’t even make sense.
– MrJM
- AnonymousOne - Wednesday, Apr 22, 15 @ 1:14 pm:
Most people want to go to work, do a good job and be rewarded for their efforts. Believe it or not, teachers want to go to work and make a difference….they encourage their students to do well and succeed. They understand that a student’s success is good for everyone and society in general. This job requires a positive mindset. In this adversarial environment established by the governor, he seems to want to create a downward spiral of chaos, division and animosity. Does this sound like a recipe for success for anyone but an ogre? Nothing but negativity from every possible angle from this man.
- Juvenal - Wednesday, Apr 22, 15 @ 1:20 pm:
Reminds me of the old, old Alan Parsons Project song, Pyramania:
There are unions in my head
There’s one underneath my bed
and Saguinetti’s getting cranky
Every budget dislocation
Has a simple explanation
And it isn’t hanky-panky
I had read somewhere in a book, they only eat our tax dollars then they whine
It is said, as soon as they are dead, everything will be oh so fine
Instead, all I ever get is a pain in the neck and I
Yap yap yap yap yap yap yap
- RNUG - Wednesday, Apr 22, 15 @ 1:26 pm:
Not sure how valid this is, but I received this (along with a lot of others) from a “fun facts” web site in my email today. This might help to explain Bruce:
“When you tell someone a goal or a thing you’ve planning on doing, it chemically satisfies your brain in a manner that’s similar to having actually completed the goal.”
- JS Mill - Wednesday, Apr 22, 15 @ 1:34 pm:
@ Proud retired teacher and union member-
Your anti-school administrator/superintendent rhetoric is not productive, in fact it is counter productive. If educators do not work together the governor’s divide and conquer approach will prevail. History (which I taught for years) provides all the evidence we need to understand how true that is.
(because few of them were ever teachers!!!)- This is untrue and actually the reverse is true. The vast majority of superintendents were classroom teachers.
Some came through the special education or counseling ranks, and a very few came from the business side. I am sorry you worked with someone that did not get it but most do. I am an educator, we need to work together and get past the old, out of date rhetoric.
- Bradley A. Zahn - Wednesday, Apr 22, 15 @ 1:46 pm:
@Proud retired @12:00pm == Ruiner ==
Not sure if that was a Freudian slip, an autocorrect issue, or intentional, but HILLARIOUS!
- Wensicia - Wednesday, Apr 22, 15 @ 1:47 pm:
We anticipated this when he first went after state workers. Fair share are switching to full membership.
- JoanP - Wednesday, Apr 22, 15 @ 2:16 pm:
““we’ll deal with that later.” He declined to elaborate . . .”
So what else is new? Everything is going to be dealt with “later”. There are never any specifics. This guy is getting monotonous.
- Mama - Wednesday, Apr 22, 15 @ 2:17 pm:
++ “fun facts” web site++ What is the name of this “fun facts” site? I would like to check it out. Thanks
- Mama - Wednesday, Apr 22, 15 @ 2:20 pm:
++The appointment of the new State Superintendent is all that is needed to verify how anti-public education Rauner is. ++ True - just ask Oakland, CA educators. Rauner appointed the new State Superintendent, not the State Board of Ed..
- bluecollargal - Wednesday, Apr 22, 15 @ 2:26 pm:
Rauner is a zealot on a crusade against organized labor. This is not a one shot battle for him but an intense and prolonged effort that will most likely continue throughout his term as governor.
- Upon Further Review - Wednesday, Apr 22, 15 @ 2:37 pm:
Excuse me Governor, but doesn’t the Illinois Educational Labor Relations Act specifically provide for “Fair Share Fees” from nonunion members who benefit from collective bargaining conducted by the union?
If it is statutory, what are you talking about?
- walker - Wednesday, Apr 22, 15 @ 2:46 pm:
===I had one teacher paying “fair-share” out of 102==
That is typical. It bears repeating because it shows how Rauner and allies are using a virtual non-issue to make a broader anti-union point.
- nixit71 - Wednesday, Apr 22, 15 @ 2:49 pm:
Cinda Klickna talks big on “fair share” when it comes to dues, but her union continues to stiff the state on the employer “fair share” of her TRS pension, which entirely based on her union executive salary and not as an educator.
https://citizenvsmachine.wordpress.com/2015/02/03/pension-busters-playbook-union-executive-bootleg/
- RNUG - Wednesday, Apr 22, 15 @ 2:49 pm:
- Mama -
wtffunfact com I think the quote was #3032.
- Precinct Captain - Wednesday, Apr 22, 15 @ 2:55 pm:
==- nixit71 - Wednesday, Apr 22, 15 @ 2:49 pm:==
A linkless exercise by a “partly Vulcan” blogger?
- Proud retired teacher and union member - Wednesday, Apr 22, 15 @ 2:55 pm:
JS Mill - it’s not rhetoric. That was my experience, and this reminded me of it. I didn’t say it happened everywhere. I know it doesn’t. But I’m entitled to my opinion as anyone else here, am i not?
- AnonymousOne - Wednesday, Apr 22, 15 @ 3:23 pm:
==Rauner and allies using a virtual non-issue to make a borader anti-union point==
Exactly. If you say it often enough people (not too bright ones, albeit) will believe you. Just like if you have enough money to buy billboards on interstates blasting misinformation about public pensions and enough people drive by it, they’ll believe it. Like brainwashing, I guess. Apparently this is one governor who has to have his feet held to the fire to produce facts. Otherwise, he is a spinner of tall tales.
- Arthur Andersen - Wednesday, Apr 22, 15 @ 3:34 pm:
Nix, I think we’ve had this exchange before but that blog you link to is spectacularly off the mark. Aside from the bias, it’s devoid of any signs of actuarial science.
Did you have a bad experience in kindygarten or what?
- Mama - Wednesday, Apr 22, 15 @ 3:39 pm:
Pension Buster’s Playbook: Union Executive Bootleg
https://citizenvsmachine.wordpress.com/2015/02/03/pension-busters-playbook-union-executive-bootleg/
- JS Mill - Wednesday, Apr 22, 15 @ 3:51 pm:
=But I’m entitled to my opinion as anyone else here, am i not?=
Yes you are, I didn’t say anything to the contrary (went back and re-read my post twice to make sure).
I am simply pointing out that 1) your statement “few” is inaccurate. I try to think of us all as educators. 2) the Us v. Them approach is not going to win the day. Rauner is depending on it for success. Hopefully current educators understand that and think the old adversarial approach is best left in the past.
I have worked with some very poor teachers, I have also released some of them. I would never say that only a “few” are good. That would be rhetoric in my book.
Enjoy your retirement, you earned it.
- Exasperated Teacher - Wednesday, Apr 22, 15 @ 4:30 pm:
My wife, who also is a teacher, is really concerned about Rauner’s campaign (yes, still campaigning and not yet governing, or reading laws, or caring about real people) against unions. I, on the other hand, am hoping this wakes up the sleeping silent majority of my fellow teachers and gets them a little bit more politically aware and active.
I also recently used the Governor’s antics to educate my brothers on what “right-to-work” and “fair share” really mean. I was able to help them understand in 3 minutes that not wanting to pay fair share also can be called “free-loading.” (Similar, but slightly different from “wanting something for nothing” or “whining about paying taxes”). Yes, it is difficult to battle a constant barrage of 30 second ads that are flashy and require little thought, but I am naive enough to believe that we can ultimately win the battle armed with facts, reason, and some compassion, which are the trifecta that Governor Rauner avoids like the letter ‘g.’
- Ghost - Wednesday, Apr 22, 15 @ 4:42 pm:
His is easy to fix. Pass a law that says nonunion members do not have to pay fair share fees, but also they are not covered by or allowed to have the benefit of collective bragining agteements. They can then opt out and negotiate their salaries with rauner….
- Langhorne - Wednesday, Apr 22, 15 @ 4:54 pm:
Crisis is leverage. Throw a hornets nest in the tent. Get as many people stirred up as possible. Then make them the enemy. Avoid a rational discussion of merits.
- AnonymousOne - Wednesday, Apr 22, 15 @ 5:02 pm:
Agreed. There is method to this madness.
- grumpy - Wednesday, Apr 22, 15 @ 5:09 pm:
Rauner knows full well that the fair share issue is a non-issue. He may be ruthless, but he certainly isn’t ignorant or stupid.
The fair share issue is just a smokescreen to keep the public focused on a non-issue. Meanwhile Rauner has his new high-powered team working 24/7 on his main agenda.
After I read the full text of Rauner’s “The Illinois Turnaround“ (not the softened “turnaround agenda”), I had to make an appointment with an ophthalmologist to push my eyeballs back in their sockets!
- AnonymousOne - Wednesday, Apr 22, 15 @ 5:36 pm:
“high-powered team”
Did you mean highly paid (with OPM) team?
- Juvenal - Wednesday, Apr 22, 15 @ 6:09 pm:
Crispy says Rauner is driving fair share teachers to become full-fledged union members, and I don’t doubt it.
Perhaps the IEA and IFT can provide us with some data. I would expect any change is most heavily concentrated in Central Illinois, given Rauner’s travel schedule.