40 Comments - 47th Ward - Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 10:52 am: Brilliant. Thanks Rich. Eternal sunshine of the spotless mind. - Anon - Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 10:52 am: Teachers aren’t AFSCME. - AC - Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 10:54 am: ==Teachers aren’t AFSCME== And ideological consistency isn’t the Tribune’s speciality - SAP - Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 10:55 am: Bruce Rauner and the editorial boards he controls … - Tournaround Agenda - Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 10:55 am: You can’t hold the Trib responsible to anything they said before Rauner bought what little integrity they had left. - Trumped up - Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 10:56 am: Teachers should not be able to strike, the Tribbers were right on that one. I will pretend like I didn’t see the next part. - Wordslinger - Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 10:58 am: If only a really big storm could wash away the Tribbie archives….. - walker - Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 10:59 am: “We’ve evolved.” Does that work? - JS Mill - Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 11:01 am: =Some force the two sides into binding arbitration with an independent overseer determining the final terms of a contract. Others toss the decision to a state commission that may include state and local officials. What’s certain is that a ban won’t rob teachers of their ability to negotiate a reasonable contract. Their interests will be protected by, for example, an outside arbiter or a legislative panel.= I thought the AFSCME bill was an attempted end around by the union and bad legislation. But, if the above quote from the Tribbies is accurate, then how was it bad for the state? - Arizona Bob - Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 11:02 am: What they wrote was as necessary then as now, public employee strikes need to be prohibited as is the case in about 41 other citizen-centered states. All it takes is a vote and a governors signature to amend the education labor relations act for teachers and school personnel. There’s NO question doing so is in the taxpayers interest. There’s NO question doing so is in the student’s interests. Madigan and Cullerton’s GA just cares a heck of a lot more about their union patron’s bought and paid for interests than the children and taxpayers of Illinois. The power to strike is overwhelming for teachers in Illinois. School boards can only capitulate, and teachers have little to lose. All days must be made up and they’ll get paid whether they bankrupt the schools or not. Saying that the number of strikes have decreased since overwhelming power was given for teachers unions to strike is more than a little disingenuous. Allegedly Republican Guv Thompson legitimizing the “right” to strike was like giving a gun to a robber. Once the robber had the gun pointed at the victims head, the amount of injuries due to victims fighting back would go WAY down compared to an unarmed robber. Daley bought labor peace with the unions by paying more than the people could afford, or that the services were worth. I believe that under Daley II the average payroll increase was at 4.2% per pupil while the inflation rate was in the low 2% level. What Chicago has now is the hangover from Richie’s corruption and cowardice. It’s time to remove this impediment to fairly adjusting compensation in Chicago and the state so that the average of 17.8% per pupil spent in Illinois can get back to manageable levels near the national average. Salaries and benefits need to be adjusted because trying to hit the pension part of compensation just can’t be done in Illinois. Time for a plan and action, guys…. - Rich Miller - Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 11:11 am: ===But, if the above quote from the Tribbies is accurate=== Do ya think I just made it up? lol - Sir Reel - Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 11:12 am: As we all know, Tribune editors never let facts, or in this case, history, get in the way of their latest great idea. - Honeybear - Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 11:13 am: mmmmm….mmmmmm….that was a most delicious morsel. Thank you Rich. Please Sir, can I have some more? - DuPage - Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 11:14 am: The difference is Rauner could buy the Tribune and fire everybody if he wants to. So they have become nothing more than a de-facto mouthpiece for Rauner. - ugh - Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 11:15 am: ==I thought the AFSCME bill was an attempted end around by the union and bad legislation. But, if the above quote from the Tribbies is accurate, then how was it bad for the state?== Read the bill and read the article!! The bill took away something from unions bargaining with the Governor - the right to strike. It applied to any union under the Gov, not just AFSCME. The truth is the was not a bad idea for the state, but it was politically inconvenient for Rauner. Any other governor would have welcomed this with open arms. - Anonin' - Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 11:16 am: Is it possible to Katrina yourself? - Sue - Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 11:21 am: Ugh- no governor in his right mind facing billions in unfunded liabilities and deficits would welcome binding arbitration for 40 thousand state employees. The only way to obtain cost savings is through negotiation and maybe impasse implementation. Do you think AFCSME would have pressed so hard if this was not protective of their interests as opposed to taxpayers? - stay in AZ - Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 11:22 am: So, AZ Bob, are you advocating for bringing back 1229 in a different bill, so we can get this passed? I like how you’re ready to form a plan and fight against Rauner. Thanks for the support! - Sue - Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 11:27 am: Rich- if you really have the MR PEABODY/ Sherman way back machine- use it to return to the 1970 ConCon and rid us of the Pension Clause. Absent that there is never going to be anything resembling meaningful pension reform - Mama - Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 11:38 am: “Do you think AFCSME would have pressed so hard if this was not protective of their interests as opposed to taxpayers?” Hello.. AFSCME members ARE taxpayers! Plus arbitration is already used in other state unions without any problems. - Sue - Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 11:43 am: Mama- yea the union members are taxpayers- the same taxpayers who sued to overturn pension reform sticking it the rest of us taxpayers - GANDY DANCER - Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 11:50 am: Since public safety unions never lose in arbitration, let’s now guarantee the teachers the same advantage. At least when you strike, you don’t get paid and both sides stand to lose. Arbitration in Illinois is a joke. The public unions never lose, and the taxpayers pick up the tab for outlandish pay and benefit raises. Additionally, arbitrators have a bad habit of giving away management rights, further obstrucking locally, elected decision making. Before you turn over school budgets to unelected, lawyers from liberal universities, you better get ready for big property tax increases. - Tournaround Agenda - Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 11:51 am: The pension reform was unconstitutional, Sue. That wasn’t the union’s fault. - ANON. - Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 11:56 am: Teachers strikes harm everyone, except of course the teachers, who have zero downside to a strike. Taxpayers lose, parents lose, and the children lose- remember its always for the children! If say autoworkers go on strike they lose the pay for the time they are on strike. But not teachers. When they go back to work the lost days are added to the end of the school year & the teachers get paid and lose nothing. - Anonymous - Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 11:57 am: Pension “Reform”? You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. - Six Degrees of Separation - Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 12:03 pm: One thing is for sure…if we are down to the Wayback Machine as the only weapon left in the arsenal for pension reform, the state retirees should sleep well at night. - lake county democrat - Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 12:13 pm: I’m not sure it’s that inconsistent. The editorial groups teachers with police/fire as “essential” public workers. It doesn’t say all public workers are “essential” in the way that if they go on strike, there’s a risk of immense irreparable harm, like there is to children from an extended teachers strike. And, of course, the current bill wasn’t “all-in” for arbitration, it was temporary, designed for a very specific representative of the public at the bargaining table. - Taxpayer - Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 12:20 pm: As a CPS parent, I am at the mercy of CPS as to where my kids go to school. Since they don’t qualify for selective enrollment, I am left only with my local neighborhood school. A system that catered to parent choice would allow for for vouchers so that private schools would be an option for all students, not just the wealthier. - Arizona Bob - Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 12:24 pm: @stay =So, AZ Bob, are you advocating for bringing back 1229 in a different bill, so we can get this passed? I like how you’re ready to form a plan and fight against Rauner. Thanks for the support!= Obviously not, unless the arbitration part is deleted and only the strike prohibition remains!LOL It’s long past time that the elected officials in this state legislate for the benefit of the children and taxpayers that make up 85% of the electorate rather than the 15% that act in conflict with that massive majority. - Arizona Bob - Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 12:32 pm: Pension reform can’t happen according to the supremes, except for new employees. I think the state has done about as much as they can with that “tier”. Now pension contributions and payouts need to be considered as part of compensation, and benchmarked, fair compensation levels need to be achieved through restraint of public employee compensation growth. Restrained compensation growth is the only way to minimize pension payouts through decreasing the basis. The only way that compensation can be fairly adjusted is by cost shifting pension contributions to the locals and schools to give them some “skin in the game” since they completely control the pension basis of their pensioners. The only way this will work is if strikes are prohibited and the boards have the right to “right size” salary and benefit schedules so that staff gets roughly equal pay for equal work and compensation be adjusted fro fair comparable worth with private sector teachers and other comparable professionals. - nona - Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 1:14 pm: Research shows the quality of the teacher is the most important school-related factor in student perfornance. Is slashing salaries and benefits going to attract quality candidates into teaching? - sweetascanbe - Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 1:25 pm: I am always amazed that the Illinois “leaders” making budgetary decisions against public servants: police, firefighters, teachers, state universities and State of Illinois employees, etc have BENEFITED at some point in their life from these services. Please start showing respect and appreciation for those of us who are MIDDLE income the majority of us have ONE house, take modest vacations (maybe), have two cars (maybe), show up to work EVERY DAY to meet the needs of the TAXPAYER. Might I also remind all of those who are against State of Illinois worker wages…WE are also TAXPAYERS that take care of TAXPAYER problems EVERY DAY! Start justifying the salary base of any and every CMS employee. This game is old and tiresome…get it together people. - Tournaround Agenda - Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 1:25 pm: Public school teachers make about $50,000 a year. Private school teachers make about $36,000. Given those salaries, I think there’s a better argument for private school teachers making more than slashing public employees down to that level. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCUQFjACahUKEwiGr-2ryerHAhXJEpIKHW3GCWw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.theatlantic.com%2Feducation%2Farchive%2F2013%2F10%2Fwhy-are-private-school-teachers-paid-less-than-public-school-teachers%2F280829%2F&usg=AFQjCNETwDgNlNwVZUXWxl-ijWOBXGBEAQ&sig2=DuuVuuFCDwt5ASaEOcdn2Q&bvm=bv.102022582,d.aWw - Demoralized - Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 1:33 pm: ==the same taxpayers who sued to overturn pension reform sticking it the rest of us taxpayers== Forever a victim aren’t you Sue. Forgive those individuals for suing to protect their rightful pensions (and Constitutionally mandated pensions I might add). You can whine and moan and complain all you want Sue. That doesn’t change reality. Deal with it. - Demoralized - Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 1:34 pm: Bob: Would love for you to explain how spending less improves the education system in Illinois. And what the heck is it with you and averages? If you are striving to be average that’s pretty pathetic. - Tournaround Agenda - Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 1:44 pm: I’d also like to mention that Indiana is facing major teaching shortages after gutting teacher compensation and education funding. That’s an average I’d like to avoid matching. - thunderspirit - Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 3:01 pm: ==the same taxpayers who sued to overturn pension reform sticking it the rest of us taxpayers== == Forever a victim aren’t you Sue. Forgive those individuals for suing to protect their rightful pensions (and Constitutionally mandated pensions I might add). You can whine and moan and complain all you want Sue. That doesn’t change reality. Deal with it. == It’s apparent that if someone didn’t fulfill a contractual, legal obligation to Sue that she would simply shrug it off instead of fighting for what she was promised. /s - Juvenal - Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 5:46 pm: The Tribune editorial board doesn’t stand behind the very policies they embraced a year ago, why would they own something said in 2011? - HGW XX/7 - Wednesday, Sep 9, 15 @ 9:00 pm: Sadly in this modern era this has become the norm from the Tribune (as well as many other media outlets). The Tribune has devolved to flavor of the month journalism with no regard for integrity or history. Another example of the Tribune’s editorial board not being the brightest bulbs in the box. - Arizona Bob - Thursday, Sep 10, 15 @ 9:30 am: @Dem =Would love for you to explain how spending less improves the education system in Illinois. And what the heck is it with you and averages? If you are striving to be average that’s pretty pathetic.= the problem is that now Illinois education produces average student outcomes for far above average costs. As I’ve said before, paying a failing, tenured teacher $20K more per 176 days won’t improve education, it just wastes resources to make it more expensive. Currently there is no incentive for public education to be more efficient, and until they’re forced to do more with less the system will continue to be one of the most inefficient, overpriced, underachieving systems in the world. Perhaps the biggest area of public ed efficiency failure is using technology as a productivity tool to reduce personnel hours for students. For over a decade computer technology has been used as a productivity tool to allow mature students to self pace learning, and give them the opportunity to minimize direct contact with teachers. These systems have rarely been used for mature public HS students to learn at their own pace year round rather than waste resources in direct contact. This would change the roll of teachers in many cases to “facilitators” of multimedia learning instead of being just droning lecturers. The reason this productivity boon hasn’t happened is that while it is clearly in the best interest of many students, it would result in lower faculty levels. Big ed would much prefer to pay recalcitrant teachers $120K for 176 days work for a class of 16 students than have them proctor and assist a hundred students throughout the year and achieve early graduation. It would meld the best factors of homeschooling and standard extracurriculars and socialization. It makes both systematic and and cost efficiency sense, so of course public ed won’t progress unless it is forced to do so while their obsolescent methods are protected. Necessity is the mother of invention, and right now innovation for efficiency and cost control in public ed is an orphan…. Sorry, comments for this post are now closed.