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Profs voting with their feet

Tuesday, Aug 2, 2016

* Steven Strahler at Crain’s

Kim Coble is among scores of professors fleeing Illinois because of the state’s precarious fiscal condition and erratic funding of higher education. After years of climbing the academic ladder, she’s decided to take a chance in California, even if it means giving up tenure and descending a rung.

“I felt that an untenured position in another state was more secure than a tenured position in Illinois,” says Coble, 45, a Chicago State University astrophysicist headed to San Francisco State University and trading a full professorship for an associate one. That’s not the only blow: She’ll pay $3,400 for a two-bedroom apartment (before a one-time $6,000 stipend), two and a half times the $1,350 a month for her three-bedroom co-op in Hyde Park.

Higher ed is in turmoil across the country as states cut support and pressure builds to slow tuition increases. But debt-ravaged Illinois is a special case. Gov. Bruce Rauner wants to chop funding by 20 percent and shift some pension obligations to schools; the stopgap budget approved in June means higher ed will get less—$1.6 billion—over 18 months than the $1.9 billion it got in the 12 months through mid-2015. Hundreds of university employees have been laid off.

More students are heading out of state, too, compounding the professorial brain drain. The exodus could take years to reverse, further threatening the long-term health of the Illinois economy.

“Nobody wants to touch Illinois with a 10-foot pole right now,” says Tanya Cofer, 42, a Northeastern Illinois University math teacher who, with her husband and colleague, Isidor Ruderfer, is leaving to join the faculty of the College of Coastal Georgia in Brunswick (population 15,383).

- Posted by Rich Miller        

89 Comments
  1. - tobor - Tuesday, Aug 2, 16 @ 9:33 am:

    Winning


  2. - The_Equalizer - Tuesday, Aug 2, 16 @ 9:36 am:

    This is a feature, not a bug.


  3. - Obamas Puppy - Tuesday, Aug 2, 16 @ 9:39 am:

    Tear it a part and privatize it, that is what Rauner does and this is the result. He never told us that by “turnaround agenda” would mean you end up in a ditch.


  4. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Aug 2, 16 @ 9:40 am:

    Rauner wants universities closed.

    You don’t, as a governor, decide not to fund higher ed on a whim.

    Chicago State, Eastern, they might see boarded up buildings instead of students.

    Western? I never thought Accredidation was optional, but Rauner sure does.

    … as Raunerites representing these school sit silently by…

    Charleston, Macomb, even Carbondale and Edwardsville… Rauner would rather see your economic engine destroyed by his hands than see what state universities do to a region and its people.

    Elections have consequences.

    I never thought… never… destroying Illinois universities was a consequence.


  5. - Illinois Bob - Tuesday, Aug 2, 16 @ 9:40 am:

    So she’s leaving one of the least successful state science programs in Illinois for a high tech mecca that’s heavily recruited by Silicon Valley. Just because of state budgetary concerns, NOT because of accreditation problems at CSU where students often don’t have 10th grade literacy levels and the grad rate is what, 25%? Yeah, surrrre Springfield is why she’s leaving….


  6. - illini - Tuesday, Aug 2, 16 @ 9:41 am:

    It was only a matter of time before we started seeing these kinds of stories - and this is happening at all state universities. Slowly our institutions of higher education are being dismantled in much the same way our social service providers were.

    Thank you Bruce!


  7. - Illinois Bob - Tuesday, Aug 2, 16 @ 9:43 am:

    The story is about the “brain drain”, yet the best examples they could find were from low rated STEM programs at CSU and Northeastern? How many are leaving the computer and engineering programs from UIUC and UIC? Gee, I guess they couldn’t find any for this story…


  8. - Henry Francis - Tuesday, Aug 2, 16 @ 9:43 am:

    Well Bob, this is the reason she gave.

    “I felt that an untenured position in another state was more secure than a tenured position in Illinois,” says Coble,


  9. - Grandson of Man - Tuesday, Aug 2, 16 @ 9:44 am:

    How about that? Super-rich right wing fiscal/economic ideologues and their Messiah governor are driving valuable people out of the state. How could that possibly happen?


  10. - Ahoy! - Tuesday, Aug 2, 16 @ 9:46 am:

    While this story is about professors, it’s not just professors voting with their feet, lots of people are voting with their feet. This State is a hot mess and has been for more than a decade. Which is exactly why we need Madigan & Cullerton to continue with the statuesque.


  11. - Langhorne - Tuesday, Aug 2, 16 @ 9:48 am:

    I thought rauner wanted a 30% cut for higher ed, maybe to surpass walkers 20% cut. Typically, he offers no real analysis or justification that can be scrutinized. Just “bloat, top heavy admin, etc”. He cant do it honorably, w GA concurrence. But he can do it by “starving the beast”. TA is just an excuse.


  12. - Anonymous - Tuesday, Aug 2, 16 @ 9:48 am:

    Illinois Bob - As always “read the full story before commenting…”

    There are more examples in the article.


  13. - here we go - Tuesday, Aug 2, 16 @ 10:00 am:

    From my understanding and limited conversation with some of the UofI professors leaving, or considering leaving, it all started with the Steven Salaita case. The budget impasse, cut to higher education, was just another blow.


  14. - Streator Curmudgeon - Tuesday, Aug 2, 16 @ 10:01 am:

    Maybe if you didn’t attend a state university, you don’t fully appreciate state universities.


  15. - Ray del Camino - Tuesday, Aug 2, 16 @ 10:01 am:

    The professorial exodus has been happening in a big way at SIU already, and continues to. Housing market is frozen. Small businesses are very nervous. Enrollment declines are widely anticipated. Heck of a job, Brucie.


  16. - TinyDancer(FKA Sue) - Tuesday, Aug 2, 16 @ 10:02 am:

    Fits in with the plan -
    close the universities -
    replace with re-education centers.


  17. - Annonin' - Tuesday, Aug 2, 16 @ 10:05 am:

    The saddest part of BigBrain’s destructive action is that is started out based on old, inaccurate data and unlike day care BigBrain refuses to admit his blunder and pivot.
    BTW when the colleges and universities make matching offers and get refused is a time to admit a cornerstone in restoring prosperity is crumbling.
    Only a fool would proceed.


  18. - Motambe - Tuesday, Aug 2, 16 @ 10:09 am:

    And how many retirees, or imminent retirees (public employees or corporate workers), are watching the governor and legislature and have a finger hovering over the “load the moving van” button when they retire? What will be the impact on smaller communities as those folks with greater expendable incomes depart for other states?


  19. - Illinois Bob - Tuesday, Aug 2, 16 @ 10:12 am:

    @Anonymous

    I DID read it. Here’s what it says regarding UIUC:

    What’s happening is our best people are being picked off—one by one by one by one,” he says. In Urbana, 50 professors quit this past academic year from a tenure-track faculty of roughly 1,929, versus 23 the previous year. “We fear that will accelerate in the next academic year.”

    Thomas Overbye, 55, a professor of electrical and computer engineering, is departing after the fall semester for Texas A&M University in College Station. “There are other places that are up-and-coming,” he says. “It’s nice to go to a place where you feel the state is behind you and not treating its universities as an afterthought.”

    50 out of 1929 faculty is only 2.5%, which is certainly very low in technical turnover. It’s usually grant money and high quality grad students to do the hard work for the professors that attracts top STEM faculty, NOT state funding.

    Texas A&M is “hot” right now due to the explosion of tech in Austin (home of UT), Dallas and Houston. Texas is dwarfing Illinois in REAL tech growth, and that has more to do with Springfield’s creating a poor business climate in Illinois than a single year’s budgetary concerns.


  20. - Mama - Tuesday, Aug 2, 16 @ 10:14 am:

    Destroying Illinois public universities is a part of Gov. Rauner’s plan. Can anyone explain why the governor of IL wants to destroy it’s public universities?


  21. - Anonymous - Tuesday, Aug 2, 16 @ 10:15 am:

    Universities in Illinois are bloated. Some cut backs are needed. I don’t think a few professors leaving is cause for such alarm.


  22. - There They're Their - Tuesday, Aug 2, 16 @ 10:18 am:

    I live in Illinois and my children will NEVER attend an Illinois University. Never.


  23. - Joe M - Tuesday, Aug 2, 16 @ 10:20 am:

    == I don’t think a few professors leaving is cause for such alarm.==

    Thousands of students leaving is cause for such alarm.


  24. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Aug 2, 16 @ 10:21 am:

    Funding state universities at a ZERO level as Rauner did for months, on purpose, it’s not about educators leaving for better places, it is about educators leaving behind empty state universities.

    If Rauner can close Eastern, Chicago State, discredit Western in hopes it folds upon itself, and get one of the SIU campuses to close, then Rauner may be willing to fund what’s left at… 75%….

    … while the towns themselves implode too.


  25. - illini - Tuesday, Aug 2, 16 @ 10:22 am:

    === Thousands of students leaving is cause for such alarm. ===

    And many are never to return !!!!


  26. - Illinois bob - Tuesday, Aug 2, 16 @ 10:25 am:

    I wish some “leader” in Illinois would revisit the vision and mission of state supported universities in Illinois. Some should focus on instruction and limited research capability, and others focus more on research where it can bring a real return to the state. Unfortunately too often the mission of the university is based more on politics and local patronage than the state’s and students needs.


  27. - Federalist - Tuesday, Aug 2, 16 @ 10:27 am:

    All of this pleases Rauner immensely. He is on his game plan.

    Madigan and Cullerton are basically indifferent. They want the funding for other areas of the budget, primarily social welfare programs.


  28. - illini - Tuesday, Aug 2, 16 @ 10:29 am:

    == Unfortunately too often the mission of the university is based more on politics and local patronage than the state’s and students needs. ==

    Please be specific - it is easy to make broad statements that have no basis in reality.


  29. - Anonymous - Tuesday, Aug 2, 16 @ 10:30 am:

    Bob

    The grant money comes and goes with the faculty. In fact, sometimes the grad students do too.


  30. - Rich Miller - Tuesday, Aug 2, 16 @ 10:33 am:

    ===Please be specific===

    Oh, come on. Them ivory towers ain’t ivory.


  31. - Aldyth - Tuesday, Aug 2, 16 @ 10:33 am:

    A good friend who is an internationally recognized expert in her specialty is leaving Illinois for the east coast. She’s making the smart decision.

    It will take Illinois decades to recover from the damage of just the first couple years of the Rauner administration. If ever.


  32. - Federalist - Tuesday, Aug 2, 16 @ 10:42 am:

    Anonymous - Tuesday, Aug 2, 16 @ 10:30 am:

    Bob

    The grant money comes and goes with the faculty. In fact, sometimes the grad students do too.

    Yep, that’s the way it works.


  33. - City Zen - Tuesday, Aug 2, 16 @ 10:43 am:

    ==Thomas Overbye, 55, a professor of electrical and computer engineering, is departing after the fall semester for Texas A&M University in College Station.==

    TRS pension in Texas is reporting an 80% funding level, whereas SURS is somewhere in the 40’s (and that’s prior to the new accounting rules that will knock it down even further). Why put your entire retirement nest egg in Illinois’ rotten pension basket?

    To think this all started with Rauner as some sort of diabolical plan is a bit naive. It took a village to get here, and it didn’t just happen overnight.


  34. - Federalist - Tuesday, Aug 2, 16 @ 10:49 am:

    @Streator Curmudgeon - Tuesday, Aug 2, 16 @ 10:01 am:

    Maybe if you didn’t attend a state university, you don’t fully appreciate state universities.

    I have pointed out before that Rauner, Madigan and Cullerton never ever attended any state university. And from what I can determine none of them even attended a public school.


  35. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Aug 2, 16 @ 10:51 am:

    No governor since Illinois has had higher education has funded state universities at a purposeful, zero, level.

    That’s on Rauner, and Rauner…. Alone.


  36. - BK Bro - Tuesday, Aug 2, 16 @ 10:53 am:

    Lol to this person that thinks moving to California is going to be a good financial maneuver. Even the unstable financial situation in Illinois will grant you a better living standard than Bay Area or OC/LA. She’s in for a serious wake up call. (I say that as some one who lived in Chicago and now lives in LA). Should’ve moved to Texas or Colorado.

    I visit a lot of college campuses and I still feel like Illinois schools are kind of “run down” compared to colleges in other states. It really doesn’t appear that Illinois schools are the type to build lazy rivers/student center spas. I walk into ASU and you can barely tell that it’s a college. More like a hotel in Cancun of Vegas. Heck, if it’s the same price as some run-down Illinois school, why wouldn’t you go to a school like that?!


  37. - illini - Tuesday, Aug 2, 16 @ 10:54 am:

    == That’s on Rauner, and Rauner…. Alone. ==

    Thanks, Willy.


  38. - AnonymousOne - Tuesday, Aug 2, 16 @ 10:54 am:

    Meh…..who needs an educated population anyway? Heavy snark


  39. - 47th Ward - Tuesday, Aug 2, 16 @ 11:03 am:

    If only faculty had a voice on the IBHE.

    Oh wait, they do. Except…

    Well one thing is for sure, Governor Rauner is NOT a fan of the faculty at the public universities in Illinois. He’s shown them nothing but contempt and the (figurative) back of his hand.


  40. - BK Bro - Tuesday, Aug 2, 16 @ 11:14 am:

    Anyone ever walk into the classroom areas of NIU? It’s a musty-smelling flashback to the 1970’s. Of course, you walk into Altgeld where the President and other higher ups have offices and its like you’re at at the halls of Congress.


  41. - Anonymous - Tuesday, Aug 2, 16 @ 11:17 am:

    Lots of failed searches for positions happening right now too.


  42. - Illinois Bob - Tuesday, Aug 2, 16 @ 11:21 am:

    =I walk into ASU and you can barely tell that it’s a college. More like a hotel in Cancun of Vegas. Heck, if it’s the same price as some run-down Illinois school, why wouldn’t you go to a school like that?!=

    Two of my kids go there, and you’re absolutely right. They produce quality of undergrad education comparable to UIUC in many fields, but they do it for more affordable rates and actually give scholarships for academic performance instead of race, national origin, and having low income parents.

    I’ve found just about everything in AZ is much less corrupt and run based on reason instead of corruption and politics.


  43. - Streator Curmudgeon - Tuesday, Aug 2, 16 @ 11:27 am:

    Federalist @ 10:49 a.m.

    Right, my point exactly.

    I felt I received a good education at ISU. I went back there eight years later for my M.S.

    I think it can be argued that the University of Illinois is one of the finest colleges in the country. But among the silver spoon set, state schools are considered gauche compared to the Ivy League.


  44. - Greener grass - Tuesday, Aug 2, 16 @ 11:34 am:

    How timely! U of I just announced that the faculty/staff salary program is on hold for another year. When raises can only be obtained by getting competing offers, why would anyone be surprised by the exodus?


  45. - Illinois bob - Tuesday, Aug 2, 16 @ 11:39 am:

    @Federalist

    =The grant money comes and goes with the faculty. In fact, sometimes the grad students do too.=

    Not entirely in the engineering field, Fed. Leaving midway in a doctoral program where you have a good shot at getting the degree rarely happens. The biggest problem is when you lose your prof who was leading your dissertation and he leaves, and you need to find another prof who doesn’t have that specialty. I’ve known a lot of doctoral students who got screwed that way…

    While grants are given to certain profs, changing schools can cancel the grant if the new “team” needs to start new and the facilities for research aren’t as good. It’s complicated to quit midstream and take the grant with you.


  46. - Shemp - Tuesday, Aug 2, 16 @ 11:43 am:

    All the last year+ has done is accelerate what was the inevitable. For years, “leaders” on both sides have not shown the fortitude to make necessary changes to alter Illinois course. No one kicks the can down the road better than Illinois.


  47. - Doug Simpson - Tuesday, Aug 2, 16 @ 11:53 am:

    @federalist:

    Fixed for you:

    All of this pleases Rauner immensely. He is on his game plan. He wants the funding for other areas of the budget, primarily social welfare programs that enhance the lives of the Top 1% of Wage Earners in the State of Illinois. For instance, himself.


  48. - illini - Tuesday, Aug 2, 16 @ 11:57 am:

    @Greenergrass - exactly.

    –“Unfortunately, the budget stalemate in Springfield remains unresolved; following two partial ‘stopgap’ appropriations, the state still does not have a full-year budget for the 2017 fiscal year that started July 1. This leaves us with uncertainty over funding that again makes a salary program fiscally imprudent at this time. As responsible stewards of the University’s future, we must be careful about committing to ongoing, increased expenses while our long-term financial picture is unclear,” he wrote. –

    President Kileen unfortunately had no other choice to make - and the exodus will continue.


  49. - Scamp640 - Tuesday, Aug 2, 16 @ 12:15 pm:

    @ Illinois Bob. Do I need to remind you that ASU is not UIUC. You can keep telling yourself that, though. However, in ten years, UIUC may be less than ASU if Rauner has his way.


  50. - Ghost - Tuesday, Aug 2, 16 @ 12:19 pm:

    Following along OWs comments. this is not improveing the state economically or business. it appears the sole purpose is to reduce the taxs the ultra rich pay inspite of the consequences to the economy.

    losing wconomic engiens and people who spend money and pay taxes is not improving the state. we are headed to a kansas style collapse…. that the gov will never feel because he has 9 different houses he can live in. what matters Rome if it burns.


  51. - Illinois Bob - Tuesday, Aug 2, 16 @ 12:30 pm:

    @scamp640

    =@ Illinois Bob. Do I need to remind you that ASU is not UIUC.=

    Nope. ASU gives scholarships for academic achievement, UIUC doesn’t. ASU is ranked #5 in the nation in Supply Chain Management and global logistics (my kids majors) while UIUC doesn’t even make national ranking. We agree that engineering, accounting and Ag are excellent at UIUC. The rest of the undergrad curricula are in the same class with ASU, and in the case of certain business programs, pretty inferior.


  52. - Doug Simpson - Tuesday, Aug 2, 16 @ 12:31 pm:

    @il bob:

    When your going over your Benefits Package in the HR office at the local Big Box you get to choose from:

    - ObamaCare aka National RommneyCare

    - ObamaPhone aka BushPhone

    - SNAP Benefits (food stamps) expanded under Bush II

    - Section 8 Housing

    Trump has no desire to end any of this.


  53. - Anotheretiree - Tuesday, Aug 2, 16 @ 12:33 pm:

    In addition to loosing current faculty…How will we attract future hires ? Who wants to come to Illinois for the TIER 2 pension ?


  54. - Anonymous - Tuesday, Aug 2, 16 @ 12:36 pm:

    Doug, check the % increase in SNAP since Obama took office. It is staggering and close to 45 million people now collect SNAP benefits.

    When you find that %, go ahead and post it here.


  55. - Federalist - Tuesday, Aug 2, 16 @ 12:44 pm:

    @ Doug Simpson - Tuesday, Aug 2, 16 @ 11:53 am:

    @federalist:

    Fixed for you:

    All of this pleases Rauner immensely. He is on his game plan. He wants the funding for other areas of the budget, primarily social welfare programs that enhance the lives of the Top 1% of Wage Earners in the State of Illinois. For instance, himself.”

    Your comment makes no sense since it is so twisted about what I said that it is unrecognizable in any meaningful context.


  56. - Federalist - Tuesday, Aug 2, 16 @ 12:47 pm:

    @Illinois Bob,
    “While grants are given to certain profs, changing schools can cancel the grant if the new “team” needs to start new and the facilities for research aren’t as good. It’s complicated to quit midstream and take the grant with you.”

    You have made a good point Illinois Bob, but the exception does not prove the rule. Overwhelmingly the grant will follow the faculty member.


  57. - Grandson of Man - Tuesday, Aug 2, 16 @ 12:48 pm:

    When Rauner and his super-rich backers tell us the state needs to go through short term pain for long term gain, they are talking about cuts that made nearly one million poor, sick and vulnerable people lose social services, as well as students, teachers and others–not themselves.

    They have sacrificed nothing.


  58. - Demoralized - Tuesday, Aug 2, 16 @ 1:02 pm:

    It doesn’t surprise me that some professors are leaving. It’s hard to work somewhere where there is so much uncertainty. Who would have ever thought that the State of Illinois would not fund it’s universities for so long? I certainly wouldn’t have thought that. It just isn’t worth the mental anguish of constantly wondering whether you’ll have a job because the state may not provide the necessary funding.


  59. - Anonymous - Tuesday, Aug 2, 16 @ 1:04 pm:

    Grandson, the same should be said of MJM.


  60. - Cassandra - Tuesday, Aug 2, 16 @ 1:04 pm:

    I too wonder if Ms. Coble is making the right decision, leaving a tenured position for one without tenure. It’s not just the housing costs in SF that are astronomical, it’s the competition. Every talented young person in the world, it seems, wants to live there and work there. The Midwest, not so much.

    If anybody is qualified to evaluate their options, it’s a 21st century academic, tho. Her choice.

    And while the universities are experiencing financial stress, the social services community and k-12 are also claiming great financial stress, while payment of public employmee pensions remains a huge budget item. So it’s not just a matter of raising taxes. How much to each of these claimants from new revenues. Who decides. And what level of tax increase is politically possible? I wouldn’t be too optimistic, even good Democratic Chicagoans may rebel after the recent and ongoing property tax increases there.


  61. - BK Bro - Tuesday, Aug 2, 16 @ 1:06 pm:

    @Illinois Bob

    What’s ironic is that even when Illinois colleges were supposedly being funded sufficiently (pre-devil Rauner), Illinois colleges were still not investing in ways that attracted students. Has Rauner made funding them harder? Yes. But Illinois’ public universities have had structural issues for a while now.

    Schools like ASU embrace innovation and change with the times (online instruction, business incubator programs, etc.). Meanwhile, Illinois schools grow stale and out of date. Yes, U of I has a great engineering program, NIU has an awesome public admin program, WIU is great for law enforcement, but the institutions overall are just so far behind their competition in other states.


  62. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Aug 2, 16 @ 1:08 pm:

    ===Who would have ever thought that the State of Illinois would not fund it’s universities for so long? I certainly wouldn’t have thought that. It just isn’t worth the mental anguish of constantly wondering whether you’ll have a job because the state may not provide the necessary funding.===

    This.

    This post… in a nutshell.

    Well said.


  63. - AnonymousOne - Tuesday, Aug 2, 16 @ 1:31 pm:

    Professors and staff aren’t the only ones voting with their feet. Illinois’ best students are being recognized with merit scholarships elsewhere and are being lured out of state. Once out, many don’t come back.

    I guess we deserve this. We get what we pay for.


  64. - NorthsideNoMore - Tuesday, Aug 2, 16 @ 1:42 pm:

    I’m betting the leavers keep their state pensions in place in good ole Land of Lincoln if they were in the job 10 years ago…many come back in a few years and recapture that retirement largesse.


  65. - Dr X - Tuesday, Aug 2, 16 @ 2:00 pm:

    Another article is needed for community colleges. Students aren’t showin’ up (no state aid), or leavin’ the state (they were Raun out). So faculty are leavin’ there too.


  66. - Illinois Bob - Tuesday, Aug 2, 16 @ 2:04 pm:

    @BK Bro

    You’re right on the money. Illinois universities have always been WAyyyy behind in innovation and improving productivity. That’s what happens when the bureaucracy is politically rather than prudency and productivity driven.


  67. - illinois bob - Tuesday, Aug 2, 16 @ 2:06 pm:

    @anonynousone

    =I guess we deserve this. We get what we pay for.=

    The problem in Illinois government and education is that we DON’T get that for which we pay, which is the crux of the problem…


  68. - Anonymous - Tuesday, Aug 2, 16 @ 2:53 pm:

    Chicago State, sadly, may have passed the point of “no return.” The current board of trustees has favored the politically connected at all times and seems out of touch with reality.


  69. - Anon Downstate - Tuesday, Aug 2, 16 @ 3:31 pm:

    Only Chicago State could do this:

    Link is: http://www.bnd.com/news/state/illinois/article93250422.html

    “State records show that Chicago State paid millions in severance and unused vacation payments after mass layoffs due to a budget crisis. Public records show the school paid $1.6 million in severance to about 50 administrators, an amount equal to salaries they would have received if they had not been terminated.”
    ————-

    Really? Did it ever occur to anybody in that esteemed institution how this might look to the average taxpayer?

    Better hope there’s more to this story or Governor Rauner has an unending example to point to about university waste of scarce fiscal resources.

    Just unreal. What world do those folks live in?


  70. - Anonymous - Tuesday, Aug 2, 16 @ 3:36 pm:

    Anon Downstate - Did you read the article? The payments were mandatory.


  71. - Union Man - Tuesday, Aug 2, 16 @ 3:43 pm:

    All part of the Rauner plan to make Mississippi attractive. 27 more months…


  72. - Demoralized - Tuesday, Aug 2, 16 @ 3:51 pm:

    Anon Downstate:

    The vacation payouts would have been required most likely. I’m not sure about the severance but if they had contracts that required it then it should have been paid. I don’t see an issue with any of this.


  73. - illini - Tuesday, Aug 2, 16 @ 4:05 pm:

    == Anon Downstate - Did you read the article? The payments were mandatory ==

    Great example of commenters deciding to pick and chose parts of a story to back up their “facts”.

    I can honestly say, from reading reputable on line reports today, that The Donald now has an actual Purple Heart. But that is not the whole story.


  74. - Anonymous - Tuesday, Aug 2, 16 @ 4:06 pm:

    You don’t have to be a rocket scientist to see that an astrophysicist instructor did not have much of a future at CSU.


  75. - Mama - Tuesday, Aug 2, 16 @ 4:24 pm:

    - Ghost - Tuesday, Aug 2, 16 @ 12:19 pm: -
    You are right.


  76. - praxis - Tuesday, Aug 2, 16 @ 4:42 pm:

    As a recently retired prof, I know that a former colleague is leaving this year because of the budget mess. This person has high teaching evals, many publications and a very bright academic future. The problem is that there does not appear to be any light on the horizon. He has had no raises since he arrived as an assistant professor. He was offered a job at a major eastern public university for a salary that is about 30 percent more than he is currently making. Yes, universities that can will raid our faculties and we will lose the best. The ones that remain are exactly the kind of mediocre teachers that do not give a good bang for the buck. I think we are at the tip of the iceberg and we will see major turnover at most of the state’s U’s over the next year. Not good.


  77. - Illinois Bob - Tuesday, Aug 2, 16 @ 5:36 pm:

    @praxis

    =The ones that remain are exactly the kind of mediocre teachers that do not give a good bang for the buck.=

    Seriously, praxis, how much of professor raises is based on teaching ability and student outcomes and satisfaction compared to noted publication and politics? Rarely are professors lured away for their undergrad teaching ability. It seems to be more about whether you bring prestige, grant money, donations, and certainly promoting the political agenda of department heads in the humanities and social sciences.


  78. - Ron - Tuesday, Aug 2, 16 @ 5:49 pm:

    All we get for what we pay is a coddled public union workforce.


  79. - illini - Tuesday, Aug 2, 16 @ 5:53 pm:

    – It seems to be more about whether you bring prestige, grant money, donations, and certainly promoting the political agenda of department heads in the humanities and social sciences. –

    Come on Bob - “political agenda”???


  80. - Anonymous - Tuesday, Aug 2, 16 @ 5:58 pm:

    ==All we get for what we pay is a coddled public union workforce=

    Other places don’t seem to view it that way when they’re offering more and better to take some of ours. Why do we begrudge paying for good people while other state do not?


  81. - Ron - Tuesday, Aug 2, 16 @ 6:03 pm:

    Because we get nothing for it. We have allowed the state to run into the ground by a political class promising outrageous benefits that can’t be changed due to an unfair Constitution. That is, until math gets in the way.


  82. - illini - Tuesday, Aug 2, 16 @ 6:14 pm:

    – can’t be changed due to an unfair Constitution –

    And this has what to do with Higher Education?


  83. - Anonymous - Tuesday, Aug 2, 16 @ 6:22 pm:

    Our “bloated” public servants are being treated so well (/s) that they’re leaving paradise and fleeing to ………? Places out of this state paying them better salaries, offering them more. What planet does anyone live on to think otherwise?


  84. - Just Chilling - Tuesday, Aug 2, 16 @ 6:40 pm:

    My department just lost two faculty members to out-of-state schools, with classes starting in three weeks. Now we must either find adjuncts or have full-timers carry the extra load. Neither is good for student learning. And it doesn’t stop there. Three of us have already announced we’re leaving for elsewhere at the end of this upcoming academic year. In one year that’s almost a 50% reduction in the faculty of a department labeled as one of my university’s signature programs. Several of us are tenured. Teaching opportunities and conditions, plus institutional stability, are the draws.


  85. - Anonymous - Tuesday, Aug 2, 16 @ 7:30 pm:

    =Neither is good for student learning==

    Apparently the only ones who are supposed to care about what is good for students is those who teach and work with them, no matter what the compensation or conditions. As if they and their children don’t need to have decent lives too. In fact, apparently they should be happy to work for nothing but the pleasure of helping. Funny how our governor doesn’t seem to care but I’m sure would be happy to point out how little others do.


  86. - Ron - Tuesday, Aug 2, 16 @ 9:37 pm:

    You don’t get it. When times are tough, people tighten the belt, you know, reduce benefits like cola, matching of retirement etc. But in Illinois we can’t do that like a rational actor, our hands are tied by a ridiculous Constitution. So we cut other ways.


  87. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Aug 2, 16 @ 9:45 pm:

    - Ron -

    You don’t get it.

    The Constitution is there to protect others from you.

    The pesky constitution is working as it was designed.


  88. - blue dog dem - Tuesday, Aug 2, 16 @ 10:11 pm:

    How can we get this pesky constitution thing changed?


  89. - Illinois bob - Wednesday, Aug 3, 16 @ 7:49 am:

    @illini

    =Come on Bob - “political agenda”???=

    Read some of the quotes from the department head at UIUC regarding the hiring of Salaita into the Indian Studies program there. It seems that anti-Semitism, and contempt for “US Imperialism” is the litmus test for hiring there. I suspect that if you’re not FAR left of center politically most liberal arts and social science faculty positions are closed to you there.


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