Capitol Fax.com - Your Illinois News Radar » Bill pulled after high costs questioned
SUBSCRIBE to Capitol Fax      Advertise Here      Mobile Version     Exclusive Subscriber Content     Updated Posts    Contact
CapitolFax.com
To subscribe to Capitol Fax, click here.
Bill pulled after high costs questioned

Thursday, Mar 16, 2017

* From the synopsis of HB 695

Provides that within one-year after the effective date of this amendatory Act, the Legislative Information System shall create a Spanish-language version of its website to provide legislative information. Specifies the legislative information to be placed on the Spanish-language website, and allows for the placement of additional unspecified information.

* The bill came up for a floor vote yesterday

“There is a segment, especially in my district, that are Spanish speaking and that follow the General Assembly and as a state representative, I want to commit to continue to have this bill and make sure we provide the best possible constituent services,” [sponsoring Rep. Silvana Tabares, D-Chicago] said.

Tabares estimated the cost of the translation, if initial software could not do it alone, at between $60,000 and $100,000 to pay for another website or software company. But she added that if a third party was needed to add Spanish to the site, it would have an estimated cost of between $800,000 to $1.5 million.

That estimate prompted House Republicans to offer up free options, such as Google Translate. It also had [Rep. Keith Wheeler, R-Oswego] holding up his own tablet to Democrats to show that he translated the website for free using Google.

“Why are we against a great free bipartisan solution?” State Rep. Mark Batinick, R-Plainfield, said before the bill was pulled. “We should have a Kumbaya and have a beer afterwards. Let’s pull this bill out of the record, let’s amend it. Let’s do something that’s free and help people who speak every language.”

The bill is now on Postponed Consideration.

The problem with any translating software (free or paid) is whether it can pick up nuances. Statutes are usually written in precise ways. Things can literally be lost or misconstrued in translation.

- Posted by Rich Miller        

33 Comments
  1. - Last Bull Moose - Thursday, Mar 16, 17 @ 10:08 am:

    No matter how good the translation, one language should be the controlling version. In Illinois that would be English.

    When I worked in Saudi Arabia, the Arabic language contract controlled. Their country, their rules.


  2. - Bothanspy - Thursday, Mar 16, 17 @ 10:10 am:

    This last paragraph is important. I was an SPSA for an agency and helped oversee this for our org. The Google translate was generally fine for schedules, directions etc. When translating legal statutes, it, came up short. For us, the legal language spelled out appeal rights and approval and denial legal citations. Ambiguity or translation errors here make it easy for the agency to lose cases on appeal. So in the end, you are going to need someone to validate all of the language translation anyway.
    Another thing to realize is that Google translate is not static. It is an algorithm that is improved and refined. So how something is translated today is not necessarily how it will appear tomorrow. It is difficult to maintain a legal history.


  3. - Precinct Captain - Thursday, Mar 16, 17 @ 10:13 am:

    The idea that Batinick and Wheeler seriously offered Google Translate as an option does not speak well to their intelligence. It’s embarrassing, frankly, but have either of them flipped through the bills or statutes on the ILGA site?


  4. - swIFT taylor - Thursday, Mar 16, 17 @ 10:15 am:

    To the last point on the post: during debate the sponsor was asked directly if her bill would mean that all text of all bills would be translated as well and she said no.


  5. - m - Thursday, Mar 16, 17 @ 10:15 am:

    =Things can literally be lost or misconstrued in translation.=

    Yes, but the same thing happens with human translators. Not every word translates directly. And most native english speakers (including many leg staffers) have a hard time understanding bill text.

    Just translating the synopsis would be far better, and I would assume google could handle that just fine (plain english and all). Could be problematic for bills that have been shelled and amended, but that’s another issue for native english speakers as well. The synopsis should represent the bill in current form, not as filed (except that no one actually wants that level of transparency).


  6. - Nick Name - Thursday, Mar 16, 17 @ 10:18 am:

    “Statutes are usually written in precise ways.”

    If only.


  7. - Anon - Thursday, Mar 16, 17 @ 10:19 am:

    Students of the classics know how agonizing it can be to translate not only words but intent. Visit a visit the King James Bible.


  8. - Swift - Thursday, Mar 16, 17 @ 10:21 am:

    Looks like the bill initially limits the Spanish language to certain segments of the website and does not include bill language, public acts, or statutes.


  9. - Downstate - Thursday, Mar 16, 17 @ 10:26 am:

    Could the Spanish translation (done by human or computer) then be used in court to argue that the statute was not the same as the English one? Hence, the citizen could chose to follow the translation of their choice?


  10. - SAP - Thursday, Mar 16, 17 @ 10:27 am:

    Rep. Hernandez tried this a few years ago for all forms used by any state agency and the cost estimates ran into the millions for some agencies. Well-intentioned idea, but crazy complicated and crazy expensive.


  11. - swIFT taylor - Thursday, Mar 16, 17 @ 10:29 am:

    Its this easy! Did it in 2 minutes for free.

    Spanish: https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=en&tl=es&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ilga.gov%2Fhouse%2Fjournals%2Fdefault.asp

    Traditional chinese: https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=en&tl=zh-TW&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ilga.gov%2Fhouse%2Fjournals%2Fdefault.asp


  12. - GV - Thursday, Mar 16, 17 @ 10:41 am:

    I used Google Translate to translate the synopsis of a property tax bill that Rep. Batinick introduced from English to Spanish and back to English.

    Translated Version:

    Modifies the Tax Code on Property. Provides that, as of fiscal year 2017, the Property Tax Extension Limitation Act applies to all tax districts, including rule of origin units. Provides that, as of the tax year 2017, the extension limitation under the Property Tax Extension Limitation Act is 0% or the voter-approved rate of increase. Preempts the start rule. Modifies the Law of Mandates of the State to demand its implementation without reimbursement. Cash immediately.

    Original:

    Amends the Property Tax Code. Provides that, beginning with the 2017 levy year, the Property Tax Extension Limitation Law applies to all taxing districts, including home rule units. Provides that, beginning with the 2017 levy year, the extension limitation under the Property Tax Extension Limitation Law is 0% or the rate of increase approved by the voters. Preempts home rule. Amends the State Mandates Act to require implementation without reimbursement. Effective immediately.


  13. - wordslinger - Thursday, Mar 16, 17 @ 10:42 am:

    Every day, all over the country, citizens, lawmakers, lawyers and judges disagree on the meanings of statutes written in English.

    You think GA members are going to agree on a Spanish translation?


  14. - Gooner - Thursday, Mar 16, 17 @ 10:45 am:

    I’m not one of those ranting “ENGLISH ONLY” people, but as to this, I would prefer to see English only.

    As others have referenced, the question is whether there would be a precise translation.

    There could be a disclaimer on the Spanish version stating that the English version controls, but then you really are doing a disservice to Spanish-speaking people by offering something that may not be accurate.

    I have family members who routinely speak a foreign language. It is a wonderful aspect of American culture.

    However, when it comes to official documents and official records, it really should be in one language.


  15. - Saluki - Thursday, Mar 16, 17 @ 10:49 am:

    Why not add Japanese, French, Hindi, Chinese, Arabic, and Portuguese while we are at it. Maybe throw in the other 7000 languages around the world too!


  16. - Lucky Pierre - Thursday, Mar 16, 17 @ 10:50 am:

    Our broke state should not just stop at paying 7 figures to translate everything into Spanish. There are probably at least two dozen languages we should translate every bill into.

    Why should the Spanish speakers get special treatment?


  17. - CG - Thursday, Mar 16, 17 @ 10:57 am:

    We live in America, English folks.


  18. - wordslinger - Thursday, Mar 16, 17 @ 10:59 am:

    What would it cost to get a translator to make sense of the governor and his GOMB crew?

    The proposed budget is balanced, but he needs unilateral power to repeal laws to cut $7 billion to make the proposed balanced budget balanced, but they can’t identify a dime of what could be cut from the proposed balanced budget to make the proposed balanced budget balanced.

    If not a translator, a cryptographer, maybe? Or a psychiatrist?


  19. - bothanspy - Thursday, Mar 16, 17 @ 11:16 am:

    –I used Google Translate to translate the synopsis of a property tax bill that Rep. Batinick introduced from English to Spanish and back to English.—

    GV’s exercise is exactly why the Google service will not work. While the translation is generally close, close doesn’t really cut it for legal language. Home rule units =/= rule of origin units. Effective immediately =/= cash immediately :)
    Its a great idea to save money, though. There is no reason to start with the Google translated version and edit it from there. Surely, than can save money instead of starting from scratch.


  20. - downstate commissioner - Thursday, Mar 16, 17 @ 11:19 am:

    While I wish that I had taken Spanish in high school, My German immigrant grandfather refused to teach his sons German. “We speak English in America.” And that was that.
    While I am not anti-immigrant, I don’t understand why we have to label everything in Spanish.
    Take the money for this and hire more Spanish to English teachers: assimilate these people, don’t make special rules….


  21. - Ron Burgundy - Thursday, Mar 16, 17 @ 11:21 am:

    I’m OK with some sort of translation if they can control the costs and it is for convenience only. Any legal challenges, etc. would have to be based upon the English text which would control.


  22. - Downstate - Thursday, Mar 16, 17 @ 11:48 am:

    “Any legal challenges, etc. would have to be based upon the English text which would control.”

    Exactly! If that’s the case, then the exactness of the translation is not as important.


  23. - Last Bull Moose - Thursday, Mar 16, 17 @ 11:55 am:

    Downstate Commissioner,

    My Prussian great-grandfather had a similar rule. He left Prussia for good reasons.


  24. - A guy - Thursday, Mar 16, 17 @ 12:47 pm:

    These bills all have a summary. Maybe just translate the summary in Spanish. For nuance, the Latino people will have to do what everyone else does; hire a lawyer or a lobbyist or both.


  25. - Huh? - Thursday, Mar 16, 17 @ 12:56 pm:

    I am sure a good lawyer could make a civil rights case out of this issue.


  26. - Iamthepita - Thursday, Mar 16, 17 @ 1:41 pm:

    If the Deaf, DeafBlind and the Hard of Hearing popular has access to services in language translation (e.g. American Sign Language Interpreter Services), why shouldn’t any other language be deprived from information in the language that they understand best?


  27. - NorthsideNoMore - Thursday, Mar 16, 17 @ 2:36 pm:

    Captain you couldn’t be more wrong… Why does broke Illinois need to spend more money we don’t have? Some folks are ready spend big bucks when the simple solution is right in front of us…Google translates dozens of languages…. this internet thingy is pretty cool more people of all languages should try it.


  28. - IllinoisBoi - Thursday, Mar 16, 17 @ 2:45 pm:

    Not sure how relevant this is, but it’s interesting:

    ‘English is Illinois’s official language. Illinois was one of the first states in America to pass an official language law, though its first official language was not English but “American”. In 1923, Representative Washington J. McCormick of Montana had failed to pass a bill in the United States Congress declaring “American” to be the official language of the United States. Following the bill’s failure, Senator Frank Ryan introduced a similar bill to the Illinois General Assembly. The bill passed with the support of Irish and Jewish politicians in Chicago, who, by rejecting the term “English”, wanted to show their opposition to British policies in Ireland and Palestine, respectively. In 1969, another act of the General Assembly replaced “American” with “English.”‘

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_Illinois


  29. - Veil of Ignorance - Thursday, Mar 16, 17 @ 6:03 pm:

    Fyi google translate without human review will lead to pretty inaccurate translations.


  30. - 1: - Friday, Mar 17, 17 @ 6:03 am:

    I am really loving the theme/design of your website. Do you ever run into
    any browser compatibility issues? A number of my
    blog visitors have complained about my site not operating correctly in Explorer but looks great in Safari.
    Do you have any tips to help fix this issue? http://thurman58p65848041.wikidot.com/blog:3


  31. - 1: - Friday, Mar 17, 17 @ 6:14 am:

    If you would like to take a great deal from this article then you have to apply these methods to your won blog. http://carlsteinke558.myblog.de/carlsteinke558/art/9219493/Most-Noticeable-Jocuri-Mario-Si-Luigi


  32. - 1: - Friday, Mar 17, 17 @ 6:18 am:

    Fabulous, what a website it is! This webpage provides useful data to us, keep it up. https://eldenbolinger.wordpress.com/2017/02/14/finding-the-best-jocuri-mario-si-luigi/


  33. - Late to the Party - Friday, Mar 17, 17 @ 7:55 am:

    In Illinois the official language is English. this is by state law. Why create web sites or forms or anything else in another language?

    Spanish? OK German? sure. Navajo? Why not. Icelandic? welcome to the party.


TrackBack URI

Sorry, comments for this post are now closed.


* CTBA: Property tax freeze would cost schools up to $830 million a year
* Cook Political Report moves Rauner reelect from "Lean Republican" to "Tossup"
* Candidates at the Pride Parade
* Caption contest!
* *** UPDATED x1 - Pritzker campaign responds *** Dueling press releases
* Um, no
* Special session roundup
* Rauner loves going over reporters' heads, and he did it again
* Rauner criticized for "campaign" trip to Iowa during special session
* Illinois' First Lady to speak at Chicago City Club today
* *** LIVE *** Special session coverage
* SUBSCRIBERS ONLY - Today's edition of Capitol Fax (use all CAPS in password)
* Yesterday's stories

Support CapitolFax.com
Visit our advertisers...

...............

...............

...............
<


Loading


* Madigan, like Rauner, lists 'non-budget' demand.....
* Illinois could be 1st state with 'junk' credit .....
* Cook Political Report moves Rauner reelect from.....
* Madigan, like Rauner, lists 'non-budget' demand.....
* Madigan, like Rauner, lists 'non-budget' demand.....
* Special Session Continues - Alton Daily News..
* Madigan, like Rauner, lists 'non-budget' demand.....
* Madigan, like Rauner, lists 'non-budget' demand.....


* Madigan, like Rauner, lists 'non-budget' demands for deal
* UberEATS, McDonald's offering delivery in Pittsburgh-area
* Correction: Peoria History Tours story
* Body found in submerged car identified as missing woman
* EXCHANGE: Soccer meets golf in 'footgolf' at golf course
* New tax on soda, sugary drinks starts July 1 in Cook County
* New tax on soda, sugary drinks starts July 1 in Cook County
* The Latest: Remy Ma beats Minaj for BET's hip hop honor
* Activists push to save rare wetlands on school property
* Proposed golf course at Obama Library draws criticism

* Speaker Madigan lays out non-budget demands
* Madigan lays out non-budget demands
* Activists push to save rare wetland on school property
* Illinois House looks at school funding, but not budget
* Illinois could be 1st state with 'junk' credit due to budget
* House looks at school funding, but not budget
* Tourists like the Statehouse, not the gridlock inside of it
* Mendoza: By August, there won't be enough tax money to cover expenses
* Mendoza issues warning while leaders argue
* People like the building, not the gridlock

* How a 29-year-old built the fastest-growing company in Chicago
* Like our roundup? Share it around.
* As McDonald's pulls up stakes, what's next for Oak Brook campus?
* Some of the shine has come off Morningstar
* Keep your tax breaks. Give us workforce training.


* Martellus Bennett ranks Jay Cutler third of QB he’s played with
* Madigan, like Rauner, lists ‘non-budget’ demands for deal
* Man killed, 4-year-old injured in crash with squad car in NW Indiana
* Cubs scout’s son on life support after being hit by baseball
* UFC fighter appears to defecate herself while getting choked out
* Reilly pushing ‘order’ to close Ohio Street underpass
* Avis teams up with Waymo on self-driving car program
* Video: Baez shares the meaning of his tattoos in ESPN’s ‘Body Issue’
* Man beaten to death in home in Calumet Park
* Nestle stock surges amid reports US hedge fund takes stake


* Former Elk Grove library employee charged with sexually abusing teen girl
* Supreme Court reinstates part of Trump travel ban, will hear case in the fall
* LINDA C. BLACK HOROSCOPES for 6/26/17
* Award-winning children's author surprises Arlington Heights student with impromptu visit
* Confederate monument in St. Louis to be removed this week
* Philando Castile family reaches $3M settlement in death
* Mamby on the Beach a winning mix of mood, tunes and Chicago vibe
* 30 days of Chicago's best barbecue
* Highlights from Tribune's live coverage of Pride Parade
* Kelly Clarkson ribs Blake Shelton, Blackhawks ahead of Soldier Field performance


» After Long Opposing Rauner's 'Non-Budget' Demands, Madigan Has Three Of His Own
» Photos: Chicago LGBT Pride Parade Parade 2017
» Photos: Chicago LGBT Pride Parade 2017
» State Week: Special Session Begins
» When Will Illinois *Really* Run Out Of Money? Could Be August
» Prosecutors Seek To Uphold 'Making A Murderer' Confession
» Budget Impasse Makes Future Of Sojourn Shelter Unclear
» Bulls Trade Butler To Timberwolves, Go All In On Rebuild
» Illinois Experiments With High Schools Of The Future
» Senate Democrats Urge Republicans To Compromise On Budget Deal


* Mark Grant: Small Businesses — Special session an opportunity to fix Illinois' budget problems
* George Will: Baseball's pace of play needs some juice
* Speaker Madigan lays out non-budget demands
* Madigan lays out non-budget demands
* Activists push to save rare wetland on school property
* Bernard Schoenburg: Rauner talks of being happy, energized during impasse
* Illinois House looks at school funding, but not budget
* Illinois could be 1st state with 'junk' credit due to budget
* Statehouse Insider: Rauner's unity speech brought out the partisanship
* Our View: Illinois on the precipice of disaster of unknown proportions


* Best of the week: 9 things to do this week
* No one injured after shots fired in Murphysboro Sunday; suspect is in custody
* 18U Black Widows repeat as NAFA state champions
* Urbana nixes hotel renovation project
* O’Fallon man, woman killed when motorcycle hits deer, is struck by SUV
* O’Fallon woman killed, man critically injured when motorcycle hits deer, is struck by SUV
* Madigan, like Rauner, lists 'non-budget' demands for deal
* Confederate monument in Forest Park will be removed by Friday, city officials say
* 200 Millstadt residents without landline 911 service
* What's that funny-looking house?


* District 73 residency event set for August
* Free concert July 1 in Round Lake Beach
* Supreme Court reinstates Trump travel ban, will hear arguments
* Aldi reopens three remodeled stores
* IN Forecast

* Hultgren pushes for job training, educatio...
* Northern Illinois Congressman Co-Sponsors ...
* Bipartisan HOME Act Introduced to Protect ...
* Students from St. Charles, Batavia among c...
* Payments in the future will be sent like t...
* Randy Hultgren: US should remain on UN cou...
* Rep. Randy Hultgren constituents decry sec...
* Hultgren backs Trump; suburban Democrats d...
* Fundraiser, protest set for Illinois GOP r...
* Duckworth Calls Republican Healthcare Bill...

* Chicago Police Gain Access To ATF Ballisti......
* Devastating consequences could come for Il......

* Duckworth Calls Republican Healthcare Bill......

* Rahm Emanuel: Trump has transformed the Republican base, and other Chicago news
* 'Maybe The Worst FCC I've Ever Seen'
* Illinois tax hikers plan phone-in tax hike demand next Tuesday
* Cook County, A Soda Tax, and the Death of an Economy
* For federal oversight of police reform to work, pressure from the community must continue
* Illinois Policy Institute calls for lawmaker pay delay until budget passage
* Despite gains, Illinois' cities have yet to erase the job losses of the recession
* Driven: The Story Of The First African American Inducted Into The NASCAR Hall Of Fame
* SB1. Bev Johns testifies today before the House Appropriations Committee.
* Psychopath CEOs Destroy Value


* Illinois Awarded Funds to Offer Advanced Training on Detecting Impaired Driving
* Illinois EPA Announces Upcoming Household Hazardous Waste Collection Events
* IEMA Highlights Emergency Preparedness for People with Access and Functional Needs in May - Ready Illinois website offers preparedness tips for people, caregivers
* First Lady Launches Illinois Family Connects
* Governor and Lt. Governor Unveil 2016 Journal of Local Government Shared Service Best Practices

  
* Google promises to put a stop to Gmail content scans for ‘ads personalization’ later this year
* Google's 'Uptime' App for Watching YouTube Videos With Friends No Longer Requires Invite Codes
* [Video] OnePlus 5: Unboxing & Hands On
* HMD brings ‘highly anticipated’ Nokia 6 to the US at $229 GSM unlocked
* LG Innotek to Begin Mass Producing Flexible Printed Circuit Boards With Eye on 2018's 'iPhone 9'
* Specifications for new Pixel 2 devices, Taimen and Walleye, revealed
* Uptime, YouTube’s experimental app for watching videos with friends, opens to all

* White Sox tab Holmberg for opener vs. Yanks
* Podcast: #56 Forever
* White Sox Minor League Update: June 25, 2017
* Holland solid for 6 innings, but bullpen falters
* Holland solid for 6 innings, but bullpen falters
* Engel takes Gray deep for 1st career homer
* Holland solid for 6 innings, but bullpen falters


Main Menu
Home
Illinois
YouTube
Pundit rankings
Obama
Subscriber Content
Durbin
Burris
Blagojevich Trial
Advertising
Updated Posts
Polls

Archives
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
December 2006
November 2006
October 2006
September 2006
August 2006
July 2006
June 2006
May 2006
April 2006
March 2006
February 2006
January 2006
December 2005
April 2005
March 2005
February 2005
January 2005
December 2004
November 2004
October 2004

Blog*Spot Archives
November 2005
October 2005
September 2005
August 2005
July 2005
June 2005
May 2005

Syndication

RSS Feed 2.0
Comments RSS 2.0
WordPress




Hosted by MCS SUBSCRIBE to Capitol Fax Advertise Here Mobile Version Contact Rich Miller