Unclear on the concept
Friday, Nov 16, 2018 - Posted by Rich Miller
* It’s not “illegal” to delete somebody’s Facebook comment, particularly the two highlighted here. What a weird thing to say…
Commenters on state Rep.-elect Anne Stava-Murray‘s Facebook page have for weeks been disparaging House Speaker Mike Madigan. That’s no surprise given Democrat Stava-Murray campaigned saying she wouldn’t vote to re-elect Madigan as speaker. But some of the social-media rhetoric has gone over the top, including inciting violence. Of Madigan, one commenter wrote, “Can’t we just drag him out into the street and beat him within an inch of his life…” Another said “Throw the b*st*rd out through a window about six floors up maybe he will get the hint it’s time to go.”
Stava-Murray told POLITICO she doesn’t delete comments because “it’s illegal to do so” if they’re from constituents. She didn’t push back to condemn the comments either because she said she didn’t see them. Stava-Murray, who is manager of the Facebook page, said she only looks at the comments at the top of the feed when she logs on. It wasn’t until after talking to POLITICO that she responded to the “beat him” comment, writing, “Let’s try to keep it peaceful. Not trying to invite violence here, just phone calls to reps.”
That may be enough to calm concerns by anyone who saw the posts that Stava-Murray takes her social-media messaging seriously.
The newly elected Rep has been calling lawmakers and encouraging them to vote against Madigan as speaker. Stava-Murray says it’s what her constituents want. She sending a message that a change in leadership is necessary given complaints last year about sexual harassment on Capitol Hill.
- Precinct Captain - Friday, Nov 16, 18 @ 9:53 am:
Not ready for prime time
- JoanP - Friday, Nov 16, 18 @ 9:57 am:
Perhaps she’s confused by the ruling that Donald Trump’s official Twitter account can’t block people?
- Juvenal - Friday, Nov 16, 18 @ 9:57 am:
“Let’s try to keep it peaceful” was really the best she had?
What a profile in cowardice.
Wonder how she would have handled Obama/Muslim comments.
John McCain she ain’t.
- strawman - Friday, Nov 16, 18 @ 9:58 am:
She must have similar aspirations to Scott Drury
- Red Ranger - Friday, Nov 16, 18 @ 9:58 am:
How long before she claims to be a former federal prosecutor?
- AlfondoGonz - Friday, Nov 16, 18 @ 9:59 am:
If deleting comments were illegal, Rich would be looking at hard time.
- HCMcB - Friday, Nov 16, 18 @ 9:59 am:
Plus, until she’s seated, she doesn’t have “constituents”
I look forward to a lot of strange stuff coming from her.
- NIU Grad - Friday, Nov 16, 18 @ 10:00 am:
What will be odd about this whole situation is that most people don’t truly understand the operations of managing a State Rep’s office until they get the support of the party apparatus. Without that, there will be many more “Unclear on the Concept” articles in the future.
- Smalls - Friday, Nov 16, 18 @ 10:01 am:
Rich, I don’t think it is as clear cut as you think it is on deleting comments. Per the secretary of state’s website, under the question “Are social media posts considered public records?”: “If a private account is used to conduct government business, then it becomes public and is subject to FOIA and the Local Records Act.” Therefore, deleting the comments could be considered destroying information that is subject to FOIA. Very gray area here.
- Anon - Friday, Nov 16, 18 @ 10:02 am:
@JoanP I think you’re right that she’s confused - elected officials need to be careful about deleting posts since that is a first amendment issue (and the ACLU has sued the governor of Maine for deleting posts and blocking people from his official page). But since she’s still a rep-elect I think she can delete freely.
- Perrid - Friday, Nov 16, 18 @ 10:02 am:
Seconding JoanP, though I’m pretty sure hate speech and violent threats are not covered by the First Amendment. It is a bit confusing though, deciding what’s protected speech and what’s not.
- Jocko - Friday, Nov 16, 18 @ 10:03 am:
I hope Anne Stava-Murray isn’t planning on proposing (much less passing) legislation anytime in the near future.
- Grandson of Man - Friday, Nov 16, 18 @ 10:03 am:
It’s horrible, and if I was the page owner, I would delete and block. Our president fans the flames of hatred and rage, which inspires mass murderers and terrorists, like the synagogue killer and alleged MAGA bomber. We need to dial it down. We can rip politicians without implying threats.
- Hamlet's Ghost - Friday, Nov 16, 18 @ 10:04 am:
These particular comments should have been deleted.
That said, it will be difficult to define the line between deleting comments for good cause, and deleting comments to achieve a de facto blocking of those who disagree with the account owner.
Of course the above only applies to elected officials and not privately owned accounts.
https://www.aclu.org/news/aclu-warns-elected-officials-government-agencies-against-blocking-members-public-social-media
- Wentworth - Friday, Nov 16, 18 @ 10:05 am:
@Smalls:
Who is the public figure conducting government business? This Rep-Elect has not even taken office yet and is not yet transacting government business.
- Bobby T - Friday, Nov 16, 18 @ 10:09 am:
The odd thing — and somewhat disturbing — is that she’s not actively policing the content. In other words, she should be *actively* hiding/deleting inflammatory comments — not just responding to complaints after the facts (with a pretty tepid “Come on, guys, let’s just get along” type of thing).
If you can’t police the content — or, at the very least, *read* every comment, then you shouldn’t open up the post for comments — period.
- Rich Miller - Friday, Nov 16, 18 @ 10:10 am:
Smalls, you’re the one who is confused. She won’t be sworn into office until January.
- Grandson of Man - Friday, Nov 16, 18 @ 10:12 am:
Hatred of Madigan backfired spectacularly, from a political standpoint. The way to “beat” Madigan is to work in good faith and build relationships, not wage war, like Rauner and the GOP did. By being radical, many are pushed toward Madigan instead of away from him. I hope the new state rep learns this.
- JoanP - Friday, Nov 16, 18 @ 10:13 am:
@Perrid -
“Hate speech” (whatever that is) is absolutely protected by the First Amendment. Violent threats are something else; it probably depends on the circumstances under which they are made, if they put someone under a reasonable apprehension of being attacked, for instnae.
- lollinois - Friday, Nov 16, 18 @ 10:14 am:
Rodney Davis deletes nearly all comments from his facebook pages. Doubt this is illegal.
- wordslinger - Friday, Nov 16, 18 @ 10:15 am:
She’s not a public official, yet. She doesn’t have any constituents, yet.
–She didn’t push back to condemn the comments either because she said she didn’t see them.–
Maybe get more personally involved in your personal social media.
Oppose whoever you want, but nobody gets a pass for winding up the nutjobs out there.
Get responsible, because you’re accountable.
- VanillaMan - Friday, Nov 16, 18 @ 10:18 am:
She has the right to delete anything on her own Facebook page.
Her site should focus on constituent service. She can edit anything she wants.
If she wants to maintain it, she must have it monitored continually.
- Annonin' - Friday, Nov 16, 18 @ 10:18 am:
So despite the thrashin’ of GovJunk and the setbacks suffered by the Dunk and Drury, the anti-Madigan mumbo jumbo still seen as path to success. Good luck
- RNUG - Friday, Nov 16, 18 @ 10:24 am:
Definitely not ready for prime time on social media.
First off, they need to post (and pin) some guidelines, Something simple, like posts containing threats, obscene language, etc. will be removed. One FB page I visit regularly sums the guidelines up as “just be nice to each other”, another says “don’t denigrate or make fun of people”.
Second, if there is a question of any public record, take and save a screen shot of any removed / deleted / hidden posts.
Third, someone needs to actively monitor the page, at minimum several times a day. And respond as needed. The whole point of social media is ability for easy interaction; if you aren’t going to respond, then just eliminate the FB account.
- Wensicia - Friday, Nov 16, 18 @ 10:25 am:
==She sending a message that a change in leadership is necessary given complaints last year about sexual harassment on Capitol Hill.==
Yet she tolerates violent posts against Madigan sent to her Facebook page, refusing to delete them?
Mixed messages.
- Lester Holt’s Mustache - Friday, Nov 16, 18 @ 10:30 am:
There are a lot of dems who would like to see the Speaker pushed into retirement. Maybe Pritzker can help with that (doubtful), but it won’t have a chance of happening without a legitimate push from within House dem caucus. Rep-elect Stava-Murray is clearly not the representation that we’re looking for on this
- Iggy - Friday, Nov 16, 18 @ 10:31 am:
She’s gonna be so angry when Mikey gives everyone a clock but her.
- West Side the Best Side - Friday, Nov 16, 18 @ 10:32 am:
If it’s her Facebook page, she should be looking at what’s on it. If she can’t do that, it doesn’t say much for her attention to detail. If she did look at it and saw those comments she should have deleted them or, if as she incorrectly assumed she couldn’t, she should have strongly condemned them, not just the “Lets play nice” pablum. That says a lot about her character.
- Because I said so... - Friday, Nov 16, 18 @ 10:35 am:
Most politicians have other people who administer their page. If she’s saying she doesn’t then she is responsible for anything and everything on her page.
And yes, not sure how strictly this is being enforced since Rodney Davis blocks and deletes any personal derogatory comments on his page. If a constituent decides to sue, they would have to provide proof. Correct?
- Anonymous - Friday, Nov 16, 18 @ 10:44 am:
OR follow the Miller standard of CapFax. Done.
- Shemp - Friday, Nov 16, 18 @ 10:44 am:
It’s going to be gray when sworn in, if not as an elect. Private email is still subject to FOIA if anything related to the office or business of the government is on it. It would take a court to decide if deleting comments was technically the destruction of a public record. Social media is a mess in the public records realm.
- Rich Miller - Friday, Nov 16, 18 @ 10:53 am:
===Private email is still subject to FOIA if anything related to the office or business of the government is on it===
You might wanna check the legislative exemptions in state law before saying that.
- Moe Berg - Friday, Nov 16, 18 @ 10:57 am:
Just have to laugh at the Sneed-like credulousness of this unsupported assertion:
“That may be enough to calm concerns by anyone who saw the posts that Stava-Murray takes her social-media messaging seriously.”
Really? Cause nothing else she’s reported suggests that to be the case at all.
- JC just saying... - Friday, Nov 16, 18 @ 10:59 am:
Welcome to the Dem’s version of Jeanne Ives. Nothing but whining and pointing fingers for self adulation.
- A guy - Friday, Nov 16, 18 @ 11:10 am:
This is not a new revelation with this lady. This really does speak to the temperature of the electorate in the area that this person was an option to pursue.
- DuPage Bard - Friday, Nov 16, 18 @ 11:11 am:
Threats against a public official are serious. They should be handled immediately and reported to the Sergeant at Arms.
If she’s going to allow people to threaten physical violence against one of her colleagues she needs to check where her priorities are.
Does she care about the State of Illinois or does she care about elevating her own image and encouraging radical violent leftist movements?
- Hate speach - Friday, Nov 16, 18 @ 11:18 am:
I’m soooo tired of the hateful, threatening tone in politics. My hope is for civility and decorum. Let’s move forward with civility and a focus problem solving.
- Rich Miller - Friday, Nov 16, 18 @ 11:40 am:
Moe, agreed. Ridic. And Capitol Hill is in DC.
- Shemp - Friday, Nov 16, 18 @ 12:09 pm:
“You might wanna check the legislative exemptions in state law before saying that.”
Sorry Rich, I forget the rest of us subject to the law are held to a different standard.
- DeseDemDose - Friday, Nov 16, 18 @ 12:38 pm:
Speaker Madigan only thought is “What is a Stava-Murray”?
- Angry Anne - Friday, Nov 16, 18 @ 2:47 pm:
Wow. What a shame that Stava Murray would look the other way while individuals on her Facebook are threatening violence. Poor judgement and irrational hatred seems to be the foundation of her legislative agenda.
- Darien Dude - Friday, Nov 16, 18 @ 3:01 pm:
I already look forward to when she’s not my rep in two years.
- Tired Teacher - Friday, Nov 16, 18 @ 3:12 pm:
A shame the Rep in the district was not more active in his campaign; really went on cruise control. As for the new state rep., I am thinking that she won’t be getting much done for her district; seems over her head.
- West Side the Best Side - Friday, Nov 16, 18 @ 4:22 pm:
Probably having that stuff on her Facebook page at all, and certainly with her response, is not going to get too many of the reps she calls agreeing with her not to vote for Madigan - if they even take her call.
- Fantasma - Friday, Nov 16, 18 @ 4:22 pm:
She sure found time to comment on a bunch of posts before and after the threatening ones. I call bs that these are the only ones that slipped by her.