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In 2017, 48.4 percent of college-bound high school grads left Illinois to study

Tuesday, Mar 12, 2019

* Student out-migration has been a problem for decades, but, like with just about everything else, Bruce Rauner inherited a serious problem and made it worse

The Illinois Board of Higher Education released its annual student out-migration report Tuesday. In 2017, 48.4 percent of students who graduated from a public school in Illinois that enrolled in a four-year college chose one outside of the state. That’s up nearly two percentage points from the fall of 2016.

The breakdown of the numbers shows an increase of more than 2,000 students attending two-year schools, meaning that there was a proportional loss of students to four-year universities even though the 53,000 student enrollment at four-year institutions was similar what it was in 2016.

Of all the graduating students, one in five chose to attend universities in other states.

Eric Lichtenberger, deputy director for information management and research with IBHE, said the two years of the state’s budget impasse, which resulted in limited school and grant funding because lawmakers couldn’t come to terms with freshman Gov. Bruce Rauner on a budget deal showed increases in students going out of state.

“Since the budget impasse, we’ve been experiencing annual increases of at least 3.5 percent, which is somewhat surprising,” he said.

- Posted by Rich Miller        

95 Comments »
  1. - AnonymousOne - Tuesday, Mar 12, 19 @ 9:26 am:

    Illinois universities offer little incentive to in state students tuition wise or scholarship wise. The cost of going out of state (with merit scholarship offered) is slightly more than UIUC. But add in housing and other costs and it’s about the same. Yet other state have a large disparity between in state tuition for their own vs out of state tuition. Until it’s affordable for ILlinois students to stay, there are plenty of out of state options. Nothing in this state is so outrageously superior academically that it keeps grads in state.


  2. - OneMan - Tuesday, Mar 12, 19 @ 9:26 am:

    If you observed your admissions process and recruitment process as a parent it shouldn’t be that surprising. I have gone on about this before and I am not going to go on about it again. But to put this at the feet of Bruce is a bit short-sighted. The problem existed before Bruce and I suspect it is going to exist for JB.


  3. - Chicago Cynic - Tuesday, Mar 12, 19 @ 9:27 am:

    The higher ed point is critical. We are investing 1/2 what we were in higher ed a decade ago. The result is higher tuition and more students leaving the state and not coming back. Some say, let’s cut our way out of it. But cutting on higher ed has led us to the mess we’re in now.


  4. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Mar 12, 19 @ 9:33 am:

    The cost, and the recruiting of Illinois students to out of state universities, makes staying in-state impossible.

    You can go to a UIC or UIUC or NIU… or go to Missouri, Iowa, Iowa State, Alabama, Mississippi State, Kentucky… abd it’s cheaper to go out of state as an “academically gifted” student, meaning Illinois has little desire to keep students, most curiously the academically gifted (SAT/ACT score, GPA combo)

    If you think those schools didn’t point the last four years to the dwindling funding to our universities, and didn’t point to the costs to recruit students…


  5. - Bourbon Street - Tuesday, Mar 12, 19 @ 9:33 am:

    Instead of a praetorian guard whispering “Remember Caesar, thou art mortal” during victory parades, we should have an aide to the Governor whisper “Don’t inherit a serious problem and make it worse” during inaugurations.


  6. - Honeybear - Tuesday, Mar 12, 19 @ 9:34 am:

    My kids want to go out of state. It’s startling to me that no matter what I say or how supportive of Illinois universities I am, they see Illinois public universities as inferior. That’s a problem.


  7. - 32nd Ward Roscoe Village - Tuesday, Mar 12, 19 @ 9:38 am:

    My 2017 went out of state–to a Minnesota private school. U of I Champaign rejected him, he toured UIC and was not impressed.


  8. - twowaystreet - Tuesday, Mar 12, 19 @ 9:39 am:

    One of the reason I moved to Illinois was because I could get in-state tuition rates after 6 months residency. If memory serves me correctly, most states require two years residency or at least they did at the time. 8 years later I am still here. Maybe something Illinois could look at to leverage more students coming into the state.


  9. - Anonymous - Tuesday, Mar 12, 19 @ 9:39 am:

    If I were a prospective student and saw what just happened at WIU this year, I’d cross them off my list. Same at EIU and SIUC in the past couple years. The state needs to help build confidence in these schools.


  10. - Jibba - Tuesday, Mar 12, 19 @ 9:42 am:

    ==The problem existed before Bruce and I suspect it is going to exist for JB.===

    Indeed. Increasing funding would solve the high tuition problem, but revenue will be sparse despite the tax increase. Therefore, universities also need to look at delivery of education in a more cost effective way.

    Why not add free or discounted summer school or summer on-line learning for full time students? Require 12 month teaching loads to accommodate added summer teaching duties. Deliver a degree in 3 years instead of 4. Eliminate athletics. Increase teaching loads to reduce personnel costs, especially at institutions that are not research intensive. Increase co-op education. Add short courses for nights or weekends. Revisit administrative pay structure.

    Why not? Inertia, desire to maintain privileges, and expectations that funding levels will increase and solve the problems without sacrifices by administration and faculty.


  11. - Robert the Bruce - Tuesday, Mar 12, 19 @ 9:43 am:

    Some families are US News ranking snobs.

    I’m not sure what Illinois can do about this, but it sure would be nice if there was a way to get ISU and UIC to be ranked higher.

    Iowa and Indiana both have two public universities ranked higher than UIC and ISU. So some kids with really good grades and scores, but not quite good enough for the U of I, end up in neighboring states.


  12. - Scamp640 - Tuesday, Mar 12, 19 @ 9:43 am:

    @ OneMan. I am a parent of kids who attend a public university in Illinois. My wife graduated from a public regional university. I have also worked at a public regional university for almost 25 years. I can speak with authority about the impacts of various administrations on public higher education in this state. Your point about the long term neglect of higher education by both parties is true. However, you are wrong to downplay the impact of Bruce Rauner’s policies on the regional public universities.

    One metaphor I can think of to explain the situation is that Rauner was a reverse Good Samaritan. Universities were akin to a starving, wounded person lying on the side of the road. Rauner came along and instead of helping the struggling person, he kicked them in the head. He went out of his way to further cripple higher education in this state.

    My philosophy is that higher education is an engine for economic development that maximizes the benefits for the greater good. Rauner’s attack on higher education reflects his philosophy that capitalism should only enrich the wealthiest while the working class and middle class suffer. Until Illinois gets a clue and increases funding for higher education, which will allow tuition costs to be lower, the student exodus will continue and the Illinois economy will continue sputter.


  13. - Not Really Suprising - Tuesday, Mar 12, 19 @ 9:44 am:

    Yes, the impasse worsened an already existing out-migration trend rooted largely in the State’s consistent and dramatic divestment in public higher ed since 2002. The impasse was like shooting an already frail and sickly patient in the foot. Finally enacting a budget helped prevent a complete bleed-out but what people remember is 1. how fiscally close the margins are for some of the institutions based on how close to the cliff they seemed to be, and 2. that the area deemed most dispensable in the entire state budget when push came to shove was higher ed (along with human services). Illinois doesn’t view or treat its own universities as a priority and now - after being left with neglected state-owned campuses and being forced to rely more on tuition than state appropriations (the inverse of how it was 20 years ago and the reason they struggle to compete cost-wise)…neither do the residents. It’s fixable, but will take a concerted effort and will require both steady operations appropriations as well as a capital renewal plan.


  14. - PublicServant - Tuesday, Mar 12, 19 @ 9:44 am:

    Maybe take some of those corporate handouts and expand merit scholarships to attend Illinois Universities to keep our best and brightest right here.


  15. - illini - Tuesday, Mar 12, 19 @ 9:45 am:

    Illinois has two exceptional private Universities, Chicago and Northwestern, as well as the public UIUC and its system. The Regionals are the ones that have been most disadvantaged and impacted by the Rauner budget impasse and will be paying the price for some time.

    This should never have happened, but needs to be addressed.

    And unfortunately, once they leave, many will never come back.


  16. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Mar 12, 19 @ 9:46 am:

    “Meanwhile…”

    The likes of Lori Loughlin, Felicity Huffman and 31 other parents are being federally charged with fraud to get their students into USC, Yale, Georgetown, UT-Austin, and Stafird

    College admissions and then paying for it… it’s high cost, it’s about a want to go to a school, and that school attracting abd keeping in-state students… while fraud is happening to get others into schools.


  17. - Why Eye Eye - Tuesday, Mar 12, 19 @ 9:47 am:

    Its too bad. University of Illinois used to be considered one of the premier public universities in the country.


  18. - Scamp640 - Tuesday, Mar 12, 19 @ 9:53 am:

    @ Honeybear. It is a problem that your kids see Illinois schools as inferior. It is a real problem because it is false perception. Despite the state neglect of higher education, the University of Illinois (UIUC) is better than any other Big 10 university except Northwestern and Michigan, on a whole range of quality and productivity measures. The public regional universities, even those that have struggled so much over the past 5 years, are as good or better than public regional universities in neighboring states.

    If the IBHE had any clue, they would invest in a large scale, statewide, and even Midwestern, advertising campaign to market higher education in this state to reverse the reputational damage done by Rauner.

    It is not true that higher education in this state is inferior. However, I completely understand why that reputation exists. Rauner actively worked to undermine public higher education. When our leaders dismiss or actively attack universities, then people listen. Four years of negative messaging by Rauner needs to be countered. The state needs to burnish the reputation of higher education in this state as part of a long term economic development strategy.


  19. - wordslinger - Tuesday, Mar 12, 19 @ 9:58 am:

    Neighboring state public universities have been marketing to Illinois kids and their parents for a long time. We got plenty of it.

    Perhaps it’s time Illinois made a similar effort to retain its own students and attract those from out-of-state. We sure didn’t see any of that, and our last of three is halfway done.

    Is there a reason why this hasn’t been done.


  20. - BenFolds5 - Tuesday, Mar 12, 19 @ 10:02 am:

    Why Eye Eye… U of I is a GREAT school. Just not for our state residents. Look up the acceptance rate in state and out of state increase. The model is Out of State tuition dependency. As a parent of H.S. students, zero chance we are looking in state. It’s not where you get any money to do so. Which is insane to me. Just 20 -25 years ago I knew like 2 kids that graduated and went out of state. We have some serious issues.


  21. - Scamp640 - Tuesday, Mar 12, 19 @ 10:02 am:

    @ Why Eye Eye. UIUC still is one of the very best public universities in the country. In fact, it is still one of the best public universities in the world. The negative messaging has to stop.

    Depending on what ranking we use, UIUC is the #9 best public university in the US. Other rankings put it at #11, #13, #15.

    It has also been recently been ranked at #71 in the entire world for both public and private universities.

    https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/top-public

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/tiananjappan/2018/08/21/top-25-public-colleges-2018/#52cf0dc0582e

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/tiananjappan/2018/08/21/top-25-public-colleges-2018/#52cf0dc0582e

    https://www.thoughtco.com/top-public-universities-788337

    https://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings/world-university-rankings/2019


  22. - Anon - Tuesday, Mar 12, 19 @ 10:06 am:

    I have 2 college-aged kids. 1 is in Indiana and the other is in Wisconsin. Reasons for the choices:

    1. Schools/academic programs were equal/better
    2. Cost was less, after accounting for in-state/out-of-state w/ scholarship offer
    3. Campus atmosphere/environment was better
    4. A bit further from home (more freedom)
    5. Better job prospects, after graduation
    6. More adventure - new state, new friends, new experiences

    Risky Business, anyone?


  23. - illini - Tuesday, Mar 12, 19 @ 10:07 am:

    Thank you @Scamp. I was starting to look those rankings. You beat me to it.


  24. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Mar 12, 19 @ 10:08 am:

    ===UIUC still is one of the very best public universities in the country. In fact, it is still one of the best public universities in the world. The negative messaging has to stop.

    Depending on what ranking we use, UIUC is the #9 best public university in the US. Other rankings put it at #11, #13, #15.

    It has also been recently been ranked at #71 in the entire world for both public and private universities.===

    During the purposeful actions of Rauner, the numbers slipped, as part of closing other universities not UIUC.

    This is most correct…

    === U of I is a GREAT school. Just not for our state residents. ===

    There is no real desire to keep quality, qualified students who could get into UIUC but will pay to attend when universities of equal caliber will offer significant merit money.

    Ironically, the better the student, the less reason to stay in Illinois.


  25. - Scamp640 - Tuesday, Mar 12, 19 @ 10:11 am:

    @ Anonymous 10:00am. How are “second tier” Illinois public universities “the problem”? What rankings are you using to make that case?

    If you look at the ranking of regional universities in the Midwest, Eastern Illinois University and Western Illinois are in the top 10, despite the abuse heaped upon them by Rauner. These regional universities are not “the problem.” They should in fact be part of statewide economic development solution.

    https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/regional-universities-midwest


  26. - Rich Miller - Tuesday, Mar 12, 19 @ 10:13 am:

    ===But to put this at the feet of Bruce is a bit short-sighted.===

    I didn’t. I said he made it worse. He did.


  27. - BenFolds5 - Tuesday, Mar 12, 19 @ 10:13 am:

    OW… Your last sentence is Bingo. Crazy as it sounds, there were 2 kids with 30’s on the ACT at a private Lisle HS last year that didn’t get wait listed at U of I.. They got denied. 3.5 GPA whole enchilada. There is a reason I went to a directional and LOVED it. Got a great education too. We have a marketing issue colliding with a reality issue. Tough times.


  28. - The Real Deal - Tuesday, Mar 12, 19 @ 10:23 am:

    My son was accepted to the U of I but offered zero scholarship $$$ despite being his high school Valedictorian and having a 33 ACT score.

    A peer Big 10 University offered two academic scholarships and the total cost counting the out of state tuition is less than 50% than the U of I price tag.

    The charter making the U of I a land grant university signed by Abe Lincoln himself indicates that the university EXISTS to educate Illinoisans. We may a bit untethered from our charter.


  29. - Pick a Name - Tuesday, Mar 12, 19 @ 10:28 am:

    Ah Willy, there you go again. UIUC has always enjoyed great rankings, it was and is a premier university. Many in-state, very smart kids go there.

    The world is not the same as it was 15-20-30 years ago.


  30. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Mar 12, 19 @ 10:31 am:

    ===there you go again===

    (Insert Chancellor Jones quote for the 1,673rd time)

    You are utterly clueless compared to the Chancellor of UIUC who refutes you.

    I know, you “know”, been to UIUC more than anyone, know more about…

    Stop.


  31. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Mar 12, 19 @ 10:33 am:

    ===The University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign is citing Springfield’s long budget stalemate as a culprit in its fall on the latest U.S. News & World Report ranking of U.S. colleges and universities. The downstate campus dropped to 52nd from a tie for 44th.

    While Illinois went for more than two years without a budget, public universities like the U of I confronted smaller and less-reliable state funding, and many out-of-state students gave second thoughts to applying.

    “Given the financial challenges facing higher education over the past 25 months, our focus has been on protecting our students’ Illinois experience and ensuring their success,” Urbana-Champaign Chancellor Robert Jones said in a statement. “We are proud that despite the state budget crisis, our graduation rate, freshman retention rate, admitted student quality and reputation among peers and high school counselors all held steady or improved. Our class sizes crept up, but only slightly.”===

    Crain’s…

    But… “you know”


  32. - illini - Tuesday, Mar 12, 19 @ 10:38 am:

    @Pick - this is a good point. But I guess you have got me wondering - could I have been admitted over 50 years ago with the same GPA, class ranking, and SAT/ACT scores as is apparently required today?

    Yet, several degrees and many years later, I would never have even considered a different University.


  33. - Pick a Name - Tuesday, Mar 12, 19 @ 10:41 am:

    Well, I made a good point in a subsequent post and it apparently got deleted so……..


  34. - Downstate - Tuesday, Mar 12, 19 @ 10:41 am:

    My son had a choice between U of I and Florida State. The non-resident cost of Florida State was cheaper than the resident cost of U of I. I told him to get out of Illinois while he can.


  35. - George - Tuesday, Mar 12, 19 @ 10:43 am:

    Is this really a problem? What matters is where they end up after graduating. Illinois, or at least the Chicago area, we;comes back its expatriates as well as welcoming in expatriates of other states who were educated at another state’s expense. Michigan is not thrilled with all of the UofM and MSU grads who head to Chicago after collecting their degrees.


  36. - Pick a Name - Tuesday, Mar 12, 19 @ 10:44 am:

    Ya, walk around Wrigleyville and surrounding areas and there are BT bars/restaurants geared for every school.


  37. - illini - Tuesday, Mar 12, 19 @ 10:46 am:

    @George - yes, this is a problem.


  38. - Oswego Willy - Tuesday, Mar 12, 19 @ 10:48 am:

    ===What matters is where they end up after graduating. Illinois, or at least the Chicago area, we;comes back its expatriates as well as welcoming in expatriates of other states who were educated at another state’s expense.===

    They are not all coming back, as Illinois is losing more residents then all the surrounding states.

    That’s the point, people and students leave… we’re not keeping our citizens here.

    ===My son had a choice between U of I and Florida State. The non-resident cost of Florida State was cheaper than the resident cost of U of I. I told him to get out of Illinois while he can.===

    This.

    Again, the argument to admissions is one argument.

    The separate argument is that one above;

    Accepted.

    Better option is out of state - cost.

    Why pay $85K for 4 years… when you don’t have to?

    We’re losing top 3-7% students… and cost/scholarships are a factor.


  39. - OneMan - Tuesday, Mar 12, 19 @ 10:48 am:

    @Scamp640 This may surprise you, but my wife and I also attended state schools in Illinois for undergrad (with a direction in its name) and my wife got her MS degree from one as well (my MS is from a private school).

    My oldest began the process and did most of her school visits before Rauner became governor.

    Here is how her process went in Illinois, UIS, not UIUC had the program she was interested in. We have family in Springfield so she knew the area. When she did the tour with my wife of campus, the tour guide was busy looking at her phone for most of the tour. When it was time for her to meet with two faculty members from the department/program she was looking to study she didn’t meet with them since when they (my daughter and wife) arrived on campus, they were informed the faculty members were not unavailable to meet with her and no one else was available. When I shared this information via e-mail to the admissions office and later the president’s office, neither could be bothered to respond. For reference, her ACT and GPA were significantly higher than the average for UIS.

    When she visited state schools in other states (Kansas, Tennessee, and Iowa), she got lab tours, was able to meet with faculty members and those schools followed up with her after her visit.

    When she graduated HS (still pre-Rauner), at the top 10% event they had. I think one kid was going to a state school in Illinois that wasn’t part of the U of I system, more kids were going to Alabama than any state school outside the U of I system.

    For reference, the state school mom & I attended barely did any marketing to her even though we are alumni donors.

    My son who has just finished this process). Yes, he went looking during the dark days of the Rauner administration.

    Not one school we visited (Nebraska, U of I, Kansas, Valparaiso) mentioned Illinois’ financial situation. Ironically at Nebraska, the second largest state represented was Illinois on our tour day. When I spoke with other parents from Illinois at Nebraska and Kansas none of them mentioned it either.

    He wants to study Engineering. Let’s get this out of the way, he did not get admitted to U of I for Engineering, even with being a resident, having taken AP Physics (both), AP Calc (he is taking the second year of that now) and 4 years of Mandarin (he just missed being declared bi-literate in Mandarin) and a ACT score in the top 3% of the country and top 10% of his class. If U of I can be that selective in-state, good for them. He also decided he wasn’t going to list undecided or something else outside of Engineering as a major to get in.

    Wasn’t his first choice anyway, he was much more impressed with the facilities at Kansas (yes, broke as well Kansas).

    So Alabama and Kansas both basically (Kansas explicitly) offered him in-state tuition, Nebraska was willing to offer even better than in-state. Kansas also gave him an Engineering scholarship for robotics so at least Freshman year he will be attending for less than in-state tuition.

    The state school mom and I attended that has an Engineering program did even less marketing to him. His ACT was 6 points higher than the high range of their average. At an alumni event, I even asked why they were not reaching out to him asking why don’t you guys look for matches in a prospective student and alumni addresses. I didn’t much of an answer.

    So if he keeps his grades up, he can go to school in Kansas for less than U of I and even though KU isn’t as prestigious as U of I as a program (I am aware of that), since their graduate school is smaller he will get more chances at research opportunities in Engineering. Nebraska is using their smaller grad school as part of their pitch for Engineering, some large % of undergrads get to do research.

    As for the inferior thing. I will say this, having been to multiple STEM events at the Engineering school at U of I (including a Science Olympiad) I will say Kansas has nicer engineering labs than U of I.

    My point is that not much has changed when my daughter went through the process before Rauner than when my son did during Rauner.


  40. - Jibba - Tuesday, Mar 12, 19 @ 10:49 am:

    George, this is one advantage we have over most of the midwest. We import more college graduates than most others due to cultural and economic opportunities in the Chicago area. However, it does not completely offset the huge loss of our own HS graduates. Iowa also cannot keep graduates, as per recent newspaper articles.


  41. - OneMan - Tuesday, Mar 12, 19 @ 10:51 am:

    Benfolds…
    Glad to see I am not the only one.


  42. - Platon - Tuesday, Mar 12, 19 @ 10:52 am:

    As someone above said, Chicago has no problem attracting well educated young kids wherever they went to school.


  43. - illini - Tuesday, Mar 12, 19 @ 10:56 am:

    @Willy - “We’re losing top 3-7% students… and cost/scholarships are a factor.”

    Very unfortunate, but true - and many of those will not be coming back.


  44. - Not a Billionaire - Tuesday, Mar 12, 19 @ 11:01 am:

    And we have a whole bunch of people arrested trying to get into the top USNews schools. Our sorry country.


  45. - wordslinger - Tuesday, Mar 12, 19 @ 11:04 am:

    –Michigan is not thrilled with all of the UofM and MSU grads who head to Chicago after collecting their degrees.–

    Same with the Cheeseheads, Golden Domers, Hawkeyes, Hoosiers, etc. Quite some battles on the North Side to be among the “official” alumni bars.

    The point is, we’re paying for these universities to educate our kids. They’re also vital economic engines in their regions. It’s in our interests for them to thrive.


  46. - City Zen - Tuesday, Mar 12, 19 @ 11:15 am:

    Anon @ 10:06 nails it. Every new generation of kids views the college experience differently. For many, this is their chance to escape Dodge and see what else is out there.

    Conversely, besides UIUC and the private Chicago universities, what makes state universities an aspiration choice to anyone out-of-state? Are kids in NC/MA/AZ looking to attend EIU for that different life experience? Wouldn’t Iowa State offer the same?


  47. - illini - Tuesday, Mar 12, 19 @ 11:18 am:

    @Wordslinger - Great point. However, outside of Chicago and its metro area what other parts of Illinois are drawing top graduates from Michigan, Wisconsin, Iowa?

    But it is not in our interest to encourage these other states to educate our best students with the hope that they may return.

    Illinois is more than Chicago and the Collar Counties, and those are the areas that are suffering the most from this exodus.


  48. - Scamp640 - Tuesday, Mar 12, 19 @ 11:20 am:

    @ OneMan. Well, I agree with you if your point is that Illinois public universities need to step up their recruiting game. I took my daugher to visit other Big 10 schools, besides UIUC. I would say that UIUC held their own against the University of Iowa(my alma mater), for example.

    However, I have heard from other parents that their visits to public Illinois universities have not always impressed. If your point is that Illinois universities have to step up their recruiting game, and that this recruiting game was not that great even before Rauner, then I agree.

    However, I stand by my point that the damage done by Rauner should not be downplayed. In fact, as a result of Rauner’s actions, public universities in Illinois have even fewer financial resources to engage in recruitment and to put on am impressive recruiting “song and dance.” It all goes back to resources. Illinois needs to support its universities so that tuition is the same cost or lower than their competitors in neighboring states. In addition, the state must provide universities with resources to engage in recruitment activities.

    It is really true that you get what you pay for. If Illinois is content to only provide tepid support for it universities, Illinois’s best and brightest will recognize that. Consequently, many will leave for other states. If Illinois wants to retain its best and brightest, it will have to spend money. This is the least complicated and most effective economic development strategy the state should pursue, to benefit the middle class in Illinois. Just my two cents.


  49. - City Zen - Tuesday, Mar 12, 19 @ 11:25 am:

    OneMan - Thanks for sharing your story. Your son’s situation mirrors many of my friends and colleagues: paid the dues, only to get turned away or offered a consolation prize. I found that the sting of decades of exorbitant property taxes combined with a rejection letter is a toxic mix for most Illinois parents. For many, it’s UIUC or bust.


  50. - OneMan - Tuesday, Mar 12, 19 @ 11:37 am:

    Thanks, City Zen,

    Fortunately KU treated him like a king and he loves the place (helps that it where is sister ended up).

    Scamp640, totally agree Rauner didn’t do any favors, but it seems people (here especially) seem to think things were hunky dory in Illinois until 4 years ago.


  51. - Not a Billionaire - Tuesday, Mar 12, 19 @ 11:37 am:

    Some snark. I read the report. Kentucky fell off the list almost certainly because potential students were scared off by their underfunded pensions. I can’t then explain why California stays constant.


  52. - illini - Tuesday, Mar 12, 19 @ 11:40 am:

    @CityZen - For many, it’s UIUC or bust.

    Quick story - My nephew was offered a full ride 4 year Chancellors Scholarship at SIUC, and was heavily solicited by out of state schools. UIUC offered a nominal academic scholarship but he chose to become the 4th generation of his family to become an Illinois Alum. No regrets there, but my brother could have saved a lot of money had his son gone to SIUC or one of the other schools that recruited him.

    And he stayed in Illinois and is a working professional in Champaign.


  53. - wordslinger - Tuesday, Mar 12, 19 @ 12:07 pm:

    –2. Cost was less, after accounting for in-state/out-of-state w/ scholarship offer–

    You said Wisconsin, i.e., Madison? That was less than where?


  54. - Pick a Name - Tuesday, Mar 12, 19 @ 12:08 pm:

    OneMan, your experience at UIS was very unfortunate. The administration should have been better prepared and much more accessible. And, to have a tour guide looking constantly at her phone–oh man. Maybe that is why their enrollment is down.

    See, it gets down to management and marketing, which is what has happened to some of the directional schools. Just do your job, visit high schools, call kids, get them on campus and treat them right. Schools may find that enrollment will increase!


  55. - BenFolds5 - Tuesday, Mar 12, 19 @ 12:15 pm:

    One Man… At least our kids are going to be better off than us, if so, we succeeded. I really think we are at a tipping point. What happens to WIU matters to the other directional schools. They should not be bailed out by the State. I like the fact that JB’s first comments seemed to support NOT bailing them out.


  56. - 47th Ward - Tuesday, Mar 12, 19 @ 12:24 pm:

    48% of those attending college went out of state. That’s a bad sign for Illinois, but let’s keep some perspective. Those kids are going to college.

    When I have more time, I’ll see if I can come up with the number of Illinois high school graduates that didn’t enroll in any college. That, to me, is a more alarming number.

    The simple fact is, there are many reasons to attend college in other states, not all of them reflect poorly on the quality of Illinois colleges. Just as when families move from Illinois, the reasons students seek colleges are complicated and highly personal.

    I’d hate to get caught up in trying to reduce this particular number and hope instead we figure out a sensible, realistic, useful and affordable path to training for those who don’t attend college anywhere.


  57. - Blue Dog Dem - Tuesday, Mar 12, 19 @ 12:35 pm:

    Not only do the Universities have to do a better marketing job, but so do the communities that are home to them. Anyone who has driven thru Carbondale knows what i am talking about. The main drag looks like a war zone.


  58. - illini - Tuesday, Mar 12, 19 @ 12:53 pm:

    Marketing is an important aspect of what is required in Higher Ed today.

    I will grant that there are likely some HS graduates that will never go to college or even a Junior College, but realize that they need some training. Some years ago I had neighbors who had a son - great guy, but not college material. He, and his parents were talked into attending a “private technical college” out of state and paid ( or more likely, borrowed $30 K ) for an 8 week course in Diesel Mechanics.

    These private, short term, technical schools are milking the system to their financial gain and, reducing resources that should be available to educate our students at our Community Colleges. But maybe that is more of a Federal issue. These vultures need to be eliminated.

    Yet, our local Colleges and Universities can do a much better job marketing their advantages.


  59. - Winderweezle - Tuesday, Mar 12, 19 @ 1:28 pm:

    Have a junior at ISU. She is there to study elementary ed and play sports. The cost is reasonable, and I have nothing but good things to say about ISU.

    My other daughter will likely go out of state to Iowa or Kentucky. She wanted to play a sport at U of I but even with scholarships the cost is prohibitive and we can’t be sure it won’t increase. The coach of her chosen college sport told daughters club sport coach that she has a lot of difficulty recruiting due to these uncertainties. This was prior to adjustments to the MAP grants which should have helped that problem somewhat.

    On a side note, I am surprised how important it is to my daughter and her friends that they go to a school with some excitement around the football program. She was underwhelmed by the game she attended in Champaign during a visit.


  60. - illini - Tuesday, Mar 12, 19 @ 1:32 pm:

    I just saw a post that said 2/3 of the graduates of UIUC remain in Illinois for their first job after graduating. Good for them and for our State, but we need more to do the same.


  61. - Dave - Tuesday, Mar 12, 19 @ 2:28 pm:

    Wisconsin builds its basketball program around Illinois kids, Two Final Fours in a row. Ethan, Frank etc. Suburban kids use UW and Iowa as backups in case Urbana rejects them.. SIU Carbondale is a disaster. Somehow UIC manages to effectively recruit large numbers eating SIU for lunch.


  62. - Pot calling kettle - Tuesday, Mar 12, 19 @ 2:54 pm:

    Rauner’s expressed concern about people leaving Illinois was only exceeded by his efforts to chase them out.


  63. - Platon - Tuesday, Mar 12, 19 @ 3:12 pm:

    High taxes, better job opportunities and the weather are the primary reason people leave illinois. No one left because of Rauner. More are certain to leave because of Pritzker though.


  64. - Mike - Tuesday, Mar 12, 19 @ 3:54 pm:

    Well that is because the best public University offers no benefit to stay in state. They would rather admit students from abroad because they get higher tuition. Many states give priority to in state students


  65. - Enemy of the State - Tuesday, Mar 12, 19 @ 4:24 pm:

    If you think attracting students is tough, how about faculty? The outstanding ones have bailed out long ago. Why wait for your program to be eliminated? Why invest in an inferior retirement plan? Good luck to the survivors.


  66. - Anonymous - Tuesday, Mar 12, 19 @ 6:23 pm:

    My child was accepted at my alma mater UIUC and chose to go elsewhere with our blessings. Never came back to Illinois. Nice that International students are coddled for their extra dollars, but what about our own family of students? Other states seem to care about their students but we have to look everywhere but at home to find ours apparently. As a state, what a dysfunctional family we are.


  67. - filmmaker prof - Tuesday, Mar 12, 19 @ 7:26 pm:

    I get so sick of the lie about UIUC accepting foreign students instead of Illinois students.
    73% of UIUC undergrads in 2018 are from Illinois.
    76.3% of freshman in 2018 are from Illinois.

    How much higher must that percentage go for some of you to stop making this false accusation?


  68. - Anonymous - Tuesday, Mar 12, 19 @ 8:36 pm:

    Student demographics website states the figure 76.3% is the highest number of freshman from ILlinois in last 10 years. Would sure be interesting to see these figures over time. Apparently UIUC is responding to some pressure to admit more of our own with recent admissions. It wasn’t this way—or prove me wrong— with my student who would’ve attended in 2010


  69. - illini - Tuesday, Mar 12, 19 @ 9:49 pm:

    @Anonymous - GET A NAME and some more of us might respond to your ( or 50 other Anonymous commenters ). Just a suggestion.


  70. - Pick a Name - Wednesday, Mar 13, 19 @ 7:41 am:

    US News 2019 ranking of top public universities has UIUC as 13th, only Big Ten school ahead is Michigan.


  71. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Mar 13, 19 @ 8:01 am:

    ===US News 2019 ranking of top public universities has UIUC as 13th, only Big Ten school ahead is Michigan.===

    … and yet, Chancellor Jones.

    “You know” what’s going on… lol

    You forget, the last 2 years, budgets have funded higher ed.


  72. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Mar 13, 19 @ 8:27 am:

    ===Apparently UIUC is responding to some pressure to admit more of our own with recent admissions.===

    UIUC also lowered admission standards.


  73. - Anonymous - Wednesday, Mar 13, 19 @ 8:36 am:

    Yet, their admission standards are still stringent as reflected in the above comments from personal experiences.


  74. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Mar 13, 19 @ 8:48 am:

    ===their admission standards are still stringent as reflected in the above comments from personal experiences.===

    So you’re agreeing …they were lowered… more students ebrolled. Got it.

    You and - Pick A Name - should talk to each other, lol


  75. - City Zen - Wednesday, Mar 13, 19 @ 8:54 am:

    ==How much higher must that percentage go for some of you to stop making this false accusation?==

    Up to 89%, as it was in 2006.


  76. - Anonymous - Wednesday, Mar 13, 19 @ 9:01 am:

    LOL, ask people who apply to Iowa and Indiana and Mizzou and ………. and see how easy it is to get accepted at those schools. Again, rankings mean something and tough admission standards mean something.


  77. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Mar 13, 19 @ 9:07 am:

    First, pick a name, the anonymous thing doesn’t work.

    It’s two-fold…

    Students getting admitted, and that being affordable,

    Missouri, Iowa State, Iowa, is you can be admitted to UIUC, and saving $75K in debt is a major factor.

    If you don’t think so, you’re not paying attention.


  78. - Anonymous - Wednesday, Mar 13, 19 @ 10:02 am:

    Hmmm, $75k savings over 4 years, so nearly $19,000 a year saved? UIUC tuition is about $4k-$5k more per year instate than Iowa, Indiana, Mizzou, etc. Assuming those schools offer Illinois kids their instate tuition, that amounts to $20k in savings.

    Where does the other $55,000 come into play? Even if those schools didn’t charge a nickel for tuition that would be $60k max, and that is on the high side.


  79. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Mar 13, 19 @ 10:06 am:

    - anonymous -

    Pick a name…

    Asked and answered time and again.


  80. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Mar 13, 19 @ 10:14 am:

    Chicago Tribune…

    tiny.cc/ps713y

    ===Enter the University of Alabama. It awarded 203 full-tuition scholarships, out of 305 total, to freshman Illinoisans in 2017, defraying more than $100,000 in costs per student. The university has nearly quintupled over the past decade the amount of institutional, non-need-based aid it awards.===

    But.. you and “Pick A Name” know… lol


  81. - Anonymous - Wednesday, Mar 13, 19 @ 11:02 am:

    Yet, the instate tuition for the University of Alabama is about $10,500 per year. So, they can use the out of state tuition and try to claim $100,000 savings for the 4 years, but only the wealthy or very well to do would pay it. And, what about the travel costs to get to and from Alabama to say, Chicago? Got to factor that in too.

    But, we were talking Iowa and Mizzou and others. Look, I know how the game is played, I had kids get accepted at UIUC and out of state schools.


  82. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Mar 13, 19 @ 11:09 am:

    ===Look, I know how===

    You *must* be - Pick A Name - but you refuse to put your name up?

    LOL. Pathetic.

    ===Yet, the instate tuition for the University of Alabama is about $10,500 per year. So, they can use the out of state tuition and try to claim $100,000 savings for the 4 years===

    You forget.

    Those students aren’t paying UIUC fees. At all

    So, no debt.

    I know, “you know”

    ===but only the wealthy or very well to do would pay it.===

    Yeah, about that…it’s a full tuition free ride. The students aren’t paying. To them, it doesn’t matter who pays, who doesn’t. They care about themselves. Keep up.

    ===what about the travel costs to get to and from Alabama to say, Chicago? Got to factor that in too.===

    You can get flights for $150 round trip.

    It’s a 12 hour drive according to google maps.

    Kids go farther away than Alabama, especially students from Illinois.

    If your getting a full ride, some cases room and board included, travel costs are easy.

    But “Pick a name”… you know.


  83. - FinePoint - Wednesday, Mar 13, 19 @ 12:49 pm:

    @Anonymous, wanting to see enrollment stats over time, how about actually looking at them instead of speculating? https://www.uillinois.edu/data/enrollment
    It’s all there. Select resident to see numbers from Illinois.


  84. - Anonymous - Thursday, Mar 14, 19 @ 6:55 am:

    So, the enrollment at the U of I system grew more from Fall ‘14 to Fall ‘18 than it it did from Fall ‘09 to Fall of ‘14.

    I guess Rauner didn’t ruin the U of I system.


  85. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Mar 14, 19 @ 7:05 am:

    ===I guess Rauner didn’t ruin the U of I system.===

    Chancellor Jones?

    ===“Given the financial challenges facing higher education over the past 25 months, our focus has been on protecting our students’ Illinois experience and ensuring their success,” Urbana-Champaign Chancellor Robert Jones said in a statement. “We are proud that despite the state budget crisis, our graduation rate, freshman retention rate, admitted student quality and reputation among peers and high school counselors all held steady or improved. Our class sizes crept up, but only slightly.”===

    UIUC also lowered admission standards.

    I guess you “anonymous” and “Pick A Name” know more than Chancellor Jones.

    You “know”…


  86. - Anonymous - Thursday, Mar 14, 19 @ 9:20 am:

    Actually your 3-4 talking points don’t trump facts. The U of I system has set records for enrollment the past 8 years.

    I guess I do know since I went to UIUC, my kids went there, my wife went there and many friends and kid’s friends went there.

    It was and is a premier public university.


  87. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Mar 14, 19 @ 9:31 am:

    ===Actually your 3-4 talking points don’t trump facts. The U of I system has set records for enrollment the past 8 years.===

    Lower admission standards, the GA making a point that not enough Illinois students are admitted, and Chancellor Kines calling the crisis what it is…

    But… “you know”

    So Chancellor Jones is wrong, according to you?

    You must be “Pick A Name”…

    ===I guess I do know since I went to UIUC, my kids went there, my wife went there and many friends and kid’s friends went there.

    It was and is a premier public university.===

    … that Rauner refused to fully fund, that the chancellor said was staying afloat during the crisis, but your “pride” and smugness is smarter than the Chancellor.


  88. - Anonymous - Thursday, Mar 14, 19 @ 10:03 am:

    Again facts are facts, no matter who tries to color a different picture. And facts are that numbers at the U of I increased at a better rate when Rauner was guv than the previous 5 years. These things aren’t my opinion, they are facts.

    So, I have vast experience with UIUC. Do you? I am not smug at all, only relying on my experience and using numbers provided by the U of I system.


  89. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Mar 14, 19 @ 10:06 am:

    ===So, I have vast experience with UIUC. Do you? I am not smug at all, only relying on my experience and using numbers provided by the U of I system.===

    You know more than the current UIUC Chancellor…

    ===Rauner was guv than the previous 5 years. These things aren’t my opinion, they are facts.===

    Lowered admission standards too.

    That’s pretty smug…. “Pick a Name

    Just say you know more that the Chancellor, go full “know it all”


  90. - Anonymous - Thursday, Mar 14, 19 @ 11:53 am:

    The chancellor complained, or whined, as you see appropriate and I probably would have done the same if I was in his shoes.

    UIUC is doing just fine, new buildings for classes, new dorms, new apartment complexes on campus, new sports facilities, etc.

    Do you have experience with the school? Did you go there? You keep harping on admission standards, it remains a difficult school to get accepted, especially in engineering and business. Not according to me, but according to US News, it is the 13th ranked public university in the nation.

    I’m sure you are a nice guy and you know more than me on 95% of the topics on this board–this isn’t one of them.


  91. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Mar 14, 19 @ 11:59 am:

    ===The chancellor complained, or whined, as you see appropriate and I probably would have done the same if I was in his shoes.

    UIUC is doing just fine, new buildings for classes, new dorms, new apartment complexes on campus, new sports facilities, etc.===

    So you know more than the Chancellor of the university.

    Wow. You think very highly of yourself. You must be fun at parties. “No, Doctor, your opinion is wrong about that patient, I know, even though I’m not a doctor.”

    No wonder you won’t put up your name… “Pick a Name”

    ===Do you have experience with the school? Did you go there? You keep harping on admission standards, it remains a difficult school to get accepted, especially in engineering and business. Not according to me, but according to US News, it is the 13th ranked public university in the nation.===

    If I’m choosing “you” or the university chancellor…

    I can’t believe you think “you know” more than the person heading the university and it’s status.

    Arrogant and smug.

    ===I’m sure you are a nice guy and you know more than me on 95% of the topics on this board–this isn’t one of them.===

    … but you know more than the university chancellor?

    Hmm.

    That’s sad to your own ego.


  92. - Anonymous - Thursday, Mar 14, 19 @ 1:30 pm:

    So I’ll take that as you have no affiliation with the school and never attended it or don’t follow it. That’s okay, I pretty much figured that out.

    Nope, not smarter than the chancellor, never claimed to be, but I can digest facts and see progress and be aware of salaries and enrollment graphs and such.

    And, I am Pick a Name but at times when I post, the posts don’t show up. It usually happens when I remark to you, and I realize you are a protected species here.

    Keep harping on:

    Lower admission standards
    Chancellor
    My supposed ego and smugness

    I’ll go with the facts and the numbers to support my claims. Enjoy your day.


  93. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Mar 14, 19 @ 1:36 pm:

    ===you have no affiliation with the school and never attended it or don’t follow it. That’s okay, I pretty much figured that out.===

    Your smugness. I may have attended UIUC, maybe not. But the chancellor knows more than us both.

    ===Nope, not smarter than the chancellor, never claimed to be, but I can digest facts and see progress and be aware of salaries and enrollment graphs and such.===

    “Nope, not smarter than the chancellor, never claimed to be, but…”

    … I am smarter than the Chancellor, lol. Yikes, man…

    ===Lower admission standards
    Chancellor===

    Yeah. Those are facts. You may not like them, but the chancellor knows more than you, admission standards were lowered.

    You can love UIUC, just realize you don’t know more than the chancellor.

    “Nope, not smarter than the chancellor, never claimed to be, but…”

    … says all I need to say.


  94. - Anonymous - Thursday, Mar 14, 19 @ 2:46 pm:

    I have to admit you make me laugh


  95. - Jen - Saturday, Mar 16, 19 @ 12:15 pm:

    Please share the data or link on the reduced admission standards for UIUC.

    I think it’s sad that IL grads are leaving. In contrast, we live in MICHIGAN and I looked up that 89% of college bound grads choose a Michigan college/university. University of Michigan takes a LOT of out of state students, almost 50%. So my kid, who is going into engineering, has been accepted at many great big ten schools, but deferred at his own flagship school. Still waiting for an answer.

    So he committed to UiUC for engineering, where my husband and I attended. He is thrilled and UiUC IS a fantastic school and we all couldn’t be happier.


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