Capitol Fax.com - Your Illinois News Radar » Today’s quotable
SUBSCRIBE to Capitol Fax      Advertise Here      Mobile Version     Exclusive Subscriber Content     Updated Posts    Contact
CapitolFax.com
To subscribe to Capitol Fax, click here.
Today’s quotable

Wednesday, Aug 21, 2019

* ProPublica Illinois has published a follow-up report to its story about how some upper-income parents have given up guardianship of their children to allow them to qualify for need-based college financial aid programs, including state MAP grants

[A parent from a wealthy community in southwestern Lake County] said she and her husband both work, earning more than $200,000 a year, to support their two teenage sons. The family is among those who have allowed their guardianship petition to lapse following the reports about the tactic.

“Why should the kids of people who work hard and are busy every day and have no time to see their kids, why are their kids being punished?” the Lake County mother asked. “They will have to take huge loans and not be able to pay.”

Both of her sons want to become doctors. The guardianship strategy may have helped them avoid hundreds of thousands of dollars in student loan debt, she said. That now seems inevitable.

“I don’t want to be discouraging them, but I’m looking at this and thinking, ‘I have to support them all of their life?’” she said.

She worries her sons will get “stuck doing something they don’t like,” perhaps attending community college and working in fast food if they can’t afford to become doctors.

Um, wow.

- Posted by Rich Miller        

90 Comments
  1. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 12:26 pm:

    ===“Why should the kids of people who work hard and are busy every day and have no time to see their kids, why are their kids being punished?” the Lake County mother asked. “They will have to take huge loans and not be able to pay.”===

    (Enter Merit Scholarships)


  2. - Ok - Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 12:26 pm:

    So, only the families without money should have to pay?


  3. - Anon Snowflake - Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 12:28 pm:

    This is too easy, not worth the easy picks other than until people are willing to reform post-secondary education (trades, community college, four-year), these are decisions her sons and thousands of others have to make.


  4. - Rutro - Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 12:29 pm:

    Why should I have to pay taxes on this mansion if there are no toilets?
    You can’t prove I applied for the homeowners exemption.
    This is the example we have set.


  5. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 12:29 pm:

    ===So, only the families without money should have to pay?===

    Merit scholarships look not on the family, but the high school academic achievement of each student and awards top students, without worry of family income, monies to further their education and help recruit worthy students to higher education institutions.

    Illinois, as a whole state, is lagging far behind in this endeavor, and these type of legal decisions point directly to that.


  6. - 47th Ward - Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 12:31 pm:

    ===perhaps attending community college and working in fast food if they can’t afford to become doctors.===

    White privilege is an over-used and politically charged term these days. However, if you wanted an easy-to-understand and real-world example of it, it would be hard to find a better example than this.


  7. - Fav human - Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 12:38 pm:

    I sent my two to college they have no debt and neither do I. Of course I started saving and investing the day they were born….

    besides I know at least two people who became doctors and let the US Air Force and US Navy pay…


  8. - Soo... - Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 12:39 pm:

    Soo… What I gathered from this is these parents have been enabling little Jonny and Jimmy their entire lives.

    So congrats Mom and Dad. Your worst fear of having “to support them all of their life” is probably your kids long term plan.


  9. - Fav human - Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 12:39 pm:

    I should also mention my total household income has always been less than 200k. Much less..


  10. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 12:41 pm:

    ===I sent my two to college they have no debt and neither do I. Of course I started saving and investing the day they were born….===

    You’re the exception, not the rule.

    Well done, sincerely. That’s a credit to you.

    ===What I gathered from this is these parents have been enabling little Jonny and Jimmy their entire lives.

    So congrats Mom and Dad. Your worst fear of having “to support them all of their life” is probably your kids long term plan.===

    Huh?


  11. - Necessary - Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 12:41 pm:

    Her concern is perfectly legitimate. All children of higher income parents don’t automatically fund their children’s whole education because they either don’t want to or don’t have the means to. For instance, what if those same parents are swimming in massive dept already, business, home, etc? Does that mean children should suffer with massive college debt, compared to children that benefit from taxpayer subsidized policies? Food for thought.


  12. - Steve Rogers - Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 12:41 pm:

    ==perhaps attending community college and working in fast food if they can’t afford to become doctors.===

    Umm, it’s not an either/or proposition. You can get a great education and get a great job without having to pay $60K-$80K in tuition.


  13. - Don't Bloc Me In - Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 12:45 pm:

    It’s probably safe to say these two sons didn’t learn much empathy in this home. Here’s hoping they learn some when they are out in the real world, before they become doctors.


  14. - RIJ - Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 12:46 pm:

    Why did that woman (and her husband) even bother to have children? I feel so sorry for those boys.


  15. - Da Big Bad Wolf - Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 12:48 pm:

    ==She worries her sons will get “stuck doing something they don’t like,” perhaps attending community college and working in fast food if they can’t afford to become doctors.==
    Oh come on. One can get a great education at a community college.


  16. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 12:49 pm:

    ===All children of higher income parents don’t automatically fund their children’s whole education because they either don’t want to or don’t have the means to. For instance, what if those same parents are swimming in massive dept already, business, home, etc?===

    Here’s the rub;

    If those students are “average” to “above average”, they face the issues ALL students that are… you guessed it… “average” of “above average”, because getting into institutions like UIUC don’t usually accept “average” or “above average”

    The point was students doing this for places like UIUC… places with very-very limited “merit” scholarships, even for students in the top 5% of their class or top 3% in ACT/SAT.

    That’s the ball game.

    ===Does that mean children should suffer with massive college debt, compared to children that benefit from taxpayer subsidized policies?===

    Again, merit scholarships don’t see or measure assistance that way.


  17. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 12:52 pm:

    ===It’s probably safe to say…===

    No, it’s not safe to say. At all.

    When a family is faced with $200K worth of student loans, be it the student, parent(s), both, the cost of higher education and measuring assistance solely on financial measures, it takes away higher education from more than just what other measures say are “lower to moderate” income households.


  18. - Rich Miller - Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 12:53 pm:

    ===Her concern is perfectly legitimate===

    Baloney.

    Her concerns are borderline sickness.


  19. - SAP - Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 12:56 pm:

    Rich: I agree with every word of your comment at 12:53 except the word “borderline”.


  20. - Jibba - Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 12:57 pm:

    ==Does that mean children should suffer with massive college debt, compared to children that benefit from taxpayer subsidized policies?===

    Most kids do not get any subsidies, or at least not enough to matter, so your rich kids are in the same boat with most. Of course, you could support free college tuition for all, supported by a tax increase, but that again involves some of your money going to “others”, lessening your economic freedom.


  21. - Henry Francis - Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 12:58 pm:

    When parents are dropping 5-6 figures on photoshopped pictures of Johnny rowing on the crew team just to get him accepted into the school of his dreams, how do you expect them to pay the tuition as well?

    What kind of car(s) do the parents drive? Do their kids have their own car? What kind of vacations do they take? Do they mow their own lawn or pay someone to do it for them? Etc. We all make choices based on our priorities.

    If the parents are pulling down $200k annually, that is 250% of the state median family income.


  22. - Blue Dog Dem - Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 12:58 pm:

    Hate to break the news, but two kids becoming doctors is gonna be over $500k. Which is absurd.


  23. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 12:59 pm:

    ===Her concerns are borderline sickness.===

    Yep. She’s a person taking actual real concerns and putting them on “11” for a 1-10 scale.

    It’s incredibly wrong, it’s gaming a system denying actual worthy students facing actual hardships. There’s nothing noble or right in parenting being done here. Nothing.

    There are institutions that her sons could go, options other students may not have. I say this knowing junior colleges exist. I say this knowing merit scholarships at other institutions exist, I say this that exceptionalism in thought to thinking gaming a system one doesn’t qualify is one knowing other options exist, but aren’t “acceptable” to her.

    While I discuss other remedies, I find this practice she’s thinks is her answer sickening


  24. - illinoyed - Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 1:03 pm:

    ‘I have to support them all of their life?’” she said. God forbid, please let me and support them with my tax dollars while you cheat the system.


  25. - Jocko - Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 1:03 pm:

    ==because they either don’t want to or don’t have the means to.==

    And that justifies lying in court so their children can appear in need of financial assistance? Heaven forbid this wealthy family choose to downsize their home or cut back on expenses to support their sons post-secondary plans.


  26. - Lake County Mom - Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 1:04 pm:

    The cost of college has gotten ridiculous. Student debt is becoming an anchor around the necks of a generation of young people. But what ticks me off is how many wealthy people aren’t fighting to make college more accessible for anyone other than their own kids.

    Here’s a great money saving tip for anyone who has young kids…

    Invest in spending time at the kitchen table helping your kids studying. Both my kids had successfully passed so many AP classes in high school that they were both 1 class short of matriculating into college as sophomores. That’s a saving of nearly a year’s worth of tuition. No cheating necessary.


  27. - Blue Dog Dem - Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 1:06 pm:

    For what its worth. My parents severed the chord when i was 18. I went to college a year. Took a 4 yr breather(?) And finished up under the GI bill. It was pretty normal in the late 60s early 70s to get the boot at 18. But i do realize times have changed.


  28. - Anonymous - Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 1:08 pm:

    ==For instance, what if those same parents are swimming in massive dept already, business, home, etc?==

    These parents could consider buying a home that they can afford so there is money left over to save and invest for their children’s education.
    Just a thought.


  29. - Enviro - Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 1:09 pm:

    The comment @1:08 was mine.


  30. - A guy - Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 1:17 pm:

    they’re not “their”. Ugh.


  31. - the Patriot - Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 1:19 pm:

    The problems with need based education is another article.

    This is about the plauge in our society where parents manipulate the rules trying to convince themselves and society their kids are something they are not. Talk to a teacher, I suspect they have heard the same parents give one excuse after another for the past four years for their kids.

    ==“stuck doing something they don’t like,”==

    I wanted to be Rich Miller when I grew up, but that was already taken so I had to get a real job.


  32. - Necessary - Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 1:19 pm:

    ==Again, merit scholarships don’t see or measure assistance that way.==

    Umm, yes they do. Little Jimmy would not qualify for tax payer subsidized student loans, MAP grants, etc. depending on their parents income. That’s literally the point.

    Whether or not it’s option one (the parent refuses to pay for their child’s education) or two (they can’t afford to because they have enormous debt, due to business, home, their own education, etc.) …should these decisions bar a child from receiving tax payer funded benefits regarding college education? Should the child be excluded and buried in debt due to the decisions, or financial situation of their parents?


  33. - Huh? - Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 1:20 pm:

    “Why should the kids of people who work hard and are busy every day and have no time to see their kids, why are their kids being punished?” t

    {Must self censor to prevent permanent ban.}


  34. - All In - Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 1:20 pm:

    The notion that the community college route is somehow substandard is simply incorrect at its foundation.

    Data from a few years back indicate that Community College transfers do nearly as well in their fifth semester (first semester of their Jr. year) at the U of I as the students who started their college career there.

    What they lack is about $50,000 in debt that the first two years at the U of I affords ($60,000 at the U of I vs. $10,000 or less at the CC). Most in state community colleges will start transfer minded students with an academic counselor at both the CC and the transfer college of choice.

    All of this while having masters prepared faculty and classroom sizes of 15-25 instead of halls of 300 students directed by grad assistants for the prerequisite course work.

    Most of these students can live at home and hold a part time job as well. The value comparison isn’t even close.


  35. - Anonymous - Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 1:22 pm:

    I work for a very expensive medical school attached to a private university. This woman needs to understand if her kids make the grades as undergrads so get us interested in them, we’re going to try to make it possible for her kids to go here.


  36. - SpfdNewb - Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 1:23 pm:

    On the post: wow what a nut. She should be spending time in prison for perjury.


  37. - JS Mill - Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 1:24 pm:

    =Does that mean children should suffer with massive college debt, compared to children that benefit from taxpayer subsidized policies? Food for thought.=

    They are not suffering, it was a choice. Some choices cost more than others.

    Seems that the answer to the high cost of college for the wealthy is to lie to get free or reduced costs because they are “owed” it?

    Entitled sickness.


  38. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 1:25 pm:

    ===Should the child be excluded and buried in debt due to the decisions, or financial situation of their parents?===

    Yep.

    Other options exist if the basis *is* financial.

    Gaming a system to attend a *choice* university isn’t being denied anything.

    No one is forcing any student to attend any university or have any student debt.


  39. - Enviro - Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 1:25 pm:

    @1:17pm Try reading the sentence again.


  40. - Soo... - Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 1:33 pm:

    OW

    Soo.. it sounds like this particular Mom has been giving her kids whatever they’ve wanted. Little Jimmy and Jonny have never had to work for it because Mom thinks things like flipping burgers is beneath her sons.

    Little Jimmy and Jonny want to be doctors but are they gonna put in the work for it. Nah, they’ll smoke and drink their way through that 4 year Uni and Med school Mom wants the state to pay for. Why because Jimmy and Jonnys parents have never held them accountable for anything.

    So When schools over and they drop out because they failed to do the work, who will little Jimmy and Jonny run to? Why Mom and Dad of course. In 5 years they’ll be one happy family, Mom, Dad and her their two adult children living in the basement.

    ~The End


  41. - Langhorne - Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 1:37 pm:

    I had an intern who had been an army medic. That got her GI benefits, citizenship, 2 bachelors degrees, and admission to UIC med school. She is now an emergency room doc in chgo.

    That path is not for everyone. The mountains of student debt are a scourge on our society and our future. Gaming the system is even more repulsive.


  42. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 1:38 pm:

    ===it sounds like===

    So you don’t know. You don’t.

    ===Little Jimmy and Jonny want to be doctors but are they gonna put in the work for it. Nah, they’ll smoke and drink their way through that 4 year Uni and Med school Mom wants the state to pay for.===

    Whew. Mighty big assumption there. They’re not on your lawn, and you can be sickened by the mother’s choice, but the angry guy at the end of the bar, first assuming how the family is, then how the sons will be at college, whew. Someone hurt you sumptin’ awful, or you’re angry because you need something to be angry at, to justify… something.

    ===So When schools over and they drop out because they failed to do the work, who will little Jimmy and Jonny run to? Why Mom and Dad of course. In 5 years they’ll be one happy family, Mom, Dad and her their two adult children living in the basement.===

    I truly feel sorry for you, and this pent up anger you must have to arbitrarily decide what folks are to make yourself feel better about being angry.

    The mother is 1,000% wrong.

    Your idea that you know more than that is borderline sick too.


  43. - NeverPoliticallyCorrect - Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 1:40 pm:

    Theft is theft and this is theft.


  44. - JSS - Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 1:43 pm:

    Wait, you mean to tell me wealthy people are gaming the system for their own personal benefit? The TV tells me it is immigrants and people on welfare who are the bad guys absconding with taxpayer money…What am I to think now?

    On the other hand, I’m sure those 2 boys are great lads, definitely not bullies in high school, will probably only roofie 1 or 2 girls in college, and only harass 5-6 women in the workplace.

    Well at least the wealthy are still trying to protect middle class families from tax hikes that, at least according to the TV, hurt me instead of them. I’m also safe knowing global warming is a hoax, corporations pay their fair share of taxes, that if I have anything beyond the flu I’ll be bankrupt (but that’s my fault for not being rich), and that we’re on track to have Greenland as the 51st state as soon as we go to war with those pesky Danes.


  45. - MFM - Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 1:43 pm:

    Look, my older brother is a doctor. He has a nice home, a nice car, 2 children in catholic school, goes on vacation AND is paying back the student loans he has had to take out to make it all happen. Being a doctor was his dream and he had to borrow money to make it happen and he would do it all again.


  46. - illinifan - Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 1:43 pm:

    My son is a doctor. When he explored undergrad options he chose a school that we could afford without taking on debt as he anticipated he would have the debt of med school. He could have chosen an expensive college but he knew what we could afford as we had a realistic discussion about finance before attending. This Lake County parent needs to start being a parent, which means your children do not get everything they want.


  47. - Skeptic - Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 1:44 pm:

    “stuck doing something they don’t like” Doesn’t that kinda define 95% of the working world?


  48. - Nonbeliever - Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 1:51 pm:

    There should be an age when parents are responsible for their children legally and financially. And there should be an age at which the parents are no longer responsible.

    I would suggest 21 although others might set it at 18 which is the age at which one is allowed to vote and assume many other legal responsibilities.

    Right now, Undergraduate students who are under age 24 as of December 31 of the award year are considered to be dependent for federal student aid purposes unless they are married, have dependents other than a spouse, are an orphan, are a veteran or active duty member of the US Armed Forces or satisfy other very limited criteria. If a student who is under age 24 doesn’t satisfy one of these criteria, the odds of being considered independent are very slim.

    Whatever that age might be, set it! And make it applicable to all situations.


  49. - Demoralized - Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 1:55 pm:

    ==Why should the kids of people who work hard and are busy every day ==

    Is she suggesting that parents who have lower incomes also do not work hard or are busy every day?


  50. - FFS - Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 1:58 pm:

    ==She worries her sons will get “stuck doing something they don’t like,” perhaps attending community college==

    Sorry, Timmy from the South Side, Johnny needs your share of grant money so his six figure parents can keep him from facing the horrors of community college and (gulp) a job he may not prefer. We just can’t have that.


  51. - Thomas Paine - Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 2:00 pm:

    Parent: “Why are there only government programs that provide for college for the poor, and not the wealthy?”

    Same parent: “They’re all socialists.”


  52. - Downstate - Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 2:03 pm:

    We can cast all the stones we want. But at the end of the day, “Was it legal?”


  53. - @misterjayem - Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 2:03 pm:

    “Is she suggesting that parents who have lower incomes do not work hard or aren’t busy every day?”

    Yes.

    – MrJM


  54. - A State Employee Guy - Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 2:05 pm:

    ProTip: if reading the quotes from the mother makes you upset, try going back and reading them in an obnoxious Chicago accent for some comic relief.


  55. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 2:05 pm:

    ===We can cast all the stones we want. But at the end of the day, “Was it legal?”===

    Yep.

    I’ll store that away when ya decide to choose “ethical” as your rationale on something far different.


  56. - dbk - Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 2:07 pm:

    Their gaming of the system is unjustifiable, but these parents’ situation points to a genuine problem: above a certain income level, there’s not going to be any financial aid (and that holds true for nearly all institutions, not just UIUC). Parents in the top 5-10% income level are considered wealthy, but they may live in expensive housing, have paid for private tutors, multiple extracurricular activities, etc. in addition to a host of expenses such earners naturally associate with their expected standard of living. The cost of college is now so high that even the top 10% must normally borrow to attend. [Thus the $1 trillion in US student debt.]

    They probably weren’t thinking about the cost of UIUC so much as about the cost of medical school. It was probably something like “If they can go to UIUC at reduced cost, we can save up some for med school, and they can take out substantial loans without the burden of undergraduate borrowing.”

    It’s a type of reasoning frequently encountered, not that it would have even been all that helpful given the boys’ career ambitions. Average student debt from med school alone (excluding undergrad debt) is now around $200,000 - and can go much, much higher if one attends a private school, studies in a city with a high cost of living, etc.

    The mother’s comment re: community college / working in fast food if they can’t become doctors is saying the quiet part out loud. This is how many people at her income level think - it’s either all-or-nothing.

    There’s really only one way to (even begin to) level the higher education playing field: free tuition. It’s not a complete solution to adult income inequality, but it’s a start.


  57. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 2:09 pm:

    ===I’m sure those 2 boys are great lads, definitely not bullies in high school, will probably only roofie 1 or 2 girls in college, and only harass 5-6 women in the workplace.===

    It’s amazing the pent up anger some feel that they project futures and personalities on people they don’t know to feel better about having that anger.

    ===Well at least the wealthy are still trying to protect middle class families from tax hikes that, at least according to the TV, hurt me instead of them. I’m also safe knowing global warming is a hoax, corporations pay their fair share of taxes, that if I have anything beyond the flu I’ll be bankrupt (but that’s my fault for not being rich), and that we’re on track to have Greenland as the 51st state as soon as we go to war with those pesky Danes.===

    Ironically, with no snark. Sincerely.

    I hope you feel better now. I hope that helped.


  58. - Anon221 - Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 2:13 pm:

    Caution… snark.

    “They will have to take huge loans and not be able to pay.”

    So, mom is assuming that the boys won’t be successful??? Surely her sense of “entitlement” was passed on to them, and they will get everything they ever wished for in life handed to them so there’s no money issues( banned punctuation). / snark

    “Why should the kids of people who work hard and are busy every day and have no time to see their kids, why are their kids being punished?”

    To me, this sounds like “keeping up with the Joneses” ain’t working out too well. Are her two boys simply “trophies”? As many others here have pointed out, there are many paths to becoming a doctor that don’t have exhobinant costs associated. The path may be longer, but it may be much more rewarding… on so many levels for these two young men.


  59. - B-non - Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 2:19 pm:

    Wow. Entitled much?


  60. - Jocko - Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 2:19 pm:

    ==But at the end of the day, “Was it legal?”==

    Only if the parents were being forthright on their child’s guardianship petition to the court.


  61. - G Major - Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 2:20 pm:

    The only positive from this clueless statement is maybe the upper middle class will begin to see how they are being impacted by our national disparity of wealth problem. My bet is that she would rather pretend to be rich and continue to game the system rather than support policies that lower student debt for all students.


  62. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 2:22 pm:

    ===Only if the parents were being forthright on their child’s guardianship petition to the court.===

    Exactly.

    I was waiting to see if - Downstate - was gonna respond, but that was where I wanted it to end.

    Well done.


  63. - Six Degrees of Separation - Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 2:23 pm:

    Nonbeliever 1:51, I was a “non-traditional” college grad who got the benefit of being considered “independent” when I went back to college. Between working every chance I had during breaks and on weekends, going after every grant and scholarship I could find, and living frugally as possible, *and going to community college for the first two years* I finished with a degree at UIUC and no college debt. I think the age of 24 for independence for college aid is about right; and there are mechanisms for under-24s who are truly estranged from their parents to be treated as independents, as one girl I knew at ISU had to go thru that process.


  64. - Just Observing - Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 2:31 pm:

    Look, this particular mother’s comments are absolutely wacky… but to the degree commenters here are willing to paint a broad brushstroke about her children, or how the mentality of the “wealthy” works, is equally as wacky.

    First, everything is relative. A family earning $125,000 and living in central Illinois may be “richer” than a family living in SE Lake County making $200,000. Of course, all depending on circumstances.

    Second, there are self-entitled, self-centered people across all geographies and socio-economics. Let’s not pretend that because one lives in an area that is considered not as wealthy compared to a “richer” Chicago suburb, that the people automatically have a better work ethic and more virtuous.


  65. - R A T - Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 2:32 pm:

    OW, don’t merit scholarships disproportionately help the rich? I think we read here once about how schools of wealthy people have higher test scores because they have better access. Thus, if poor kids cannot get access to the better schools to get better merit and they are being cheated out of things meant to only help the disadvantaged, are we still not helping them?

    And as a disclaimer I will also admit, I am that fiscal guy that paid for all my kids college without any help and without any debt as I planned it from their birth.


  66. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 2:38 pm:

    - R A T -

    I’d love to answer, but I fear I’ll be tiresome.

    :)


  67. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 2:44 pm:

    ===don’t merit scholarships disproportionately help the rich?===

    Since it’s merit based, and not financial, if one can meet the benchmarks, no one should be denied merit based monies based on a measurable academic standard.

    “don’t merit scholarships disproportionately help the rich?”

    Doesn’t financial aid disproportionately help those most needy, no matter the academic merit?

    What merit scholarships do… is stop the overt cheating for families that can help their students achieve higher excellence in school… and be rewarded for that.


  68. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 2:49 pm:

    ===don’t merit scholarships disproportionately help the rich?===

    If Illinois wants to continue to keep out students that are in the top 5-10%, who score in the top 3-5% in ACT/SAT and squeeze out, deemed too “wealthy” for income based scholarships, out of Illinois universities, like UIUC, UIC, etc, then scams like this mom is advocating will continue, or students will leave like they’ve been doing, at a clip only eclipsed by New Jersey.


  69. - Downstate - Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 2:52 pm:

    -Only if the parents were being forthright on their child’s guardianship petition to the court.

    Is that the standard for guardianship? I’m only asking because I don’t know.

    Many things lack ethics, but are still legal.
    Politicos who take a new position for 30 days prior to retirement to “goose” their final pension calculation would be a classic example.


  70. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 2:54 pm:

    ===Politicos who take a new position for 30 days prior to retirement to “goose” their final pension calculation would be a classic example.===

    Then you must be fine with that, since it’s legal and all.


  71. - Rich Miller - Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 2:56 pm:

    ===Politicos who take a new position for 30 days prior to retirement to “goose” their final pension calculation===

    That’s no longer allowed.


  72. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 2:56 pm:

    Apologies… *was* legal…

    That’s on me, answering in the present.


  73. - R A T - Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 3:02 pm:

    OW, of your three answers to my question, I liked your last one the best.


  74. - Jocko - Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 3:05 pm:

    DS,

    https://www.19thcircuitcourt.state.il.us/1322/Guardianship-of-Minorst

    The loophole is the phrase “A minor needs a guardian…when the parents are unable or unwilling to care for the minor.”


  75. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 3:06 pm:

    ===your three answers===

    It’s a complicated situation.

    If it were easy…


  76. - Soo... - Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 3:13 pm:

    (No snark) Willy I cant “keep up” with you on this.

    I’ll say this: I’m allow to have my opinions (based on personal experience with affluent parents in Lake Co.) however much you disagree.

    Because for the record, Yes this mom angers me. I didnt have parents making $200K a year. I didnt have choices, I had work to succeed. That included burger flipping. To hear her be not only be oblivious but also demeaning at the same time does bothers me.

    I really do hope Jimmy and Jonny earn their opportunities but I wont hold my breath waiting for them to prove someone like me wrong.


  77. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 3:16 pm:

    ===I’ll say this: I’m allow to have my opinions (based on personal experience with affluent parents in Lake Co.) however much you disagree.===

    … and yet, you’re projecting that on people you don’t know.

    Might as well call them “those people” with that rationale.


  78. - lakeside - Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 3:56 pm:

    Phew. Didn’t know class rage could physically bubble up in my throat.

    Listen, if that lady was willing to say that knowing it’d be published, imagine the stuff she didn’t say.

    I think we all agree that college tuition/loans is a complex issue (in that it feels insane), but folks like the woman above who treat it like the high cost of college is somehow *only a problem for them* is maddening. Everyone is dealing with this in their own way, and the reason she’s mad about flushing money down the toilet is because she has money to flush. The generational wealth she’s going to pass down to her sons - even if they take the loans for it all - will set them up above the vast majority of people in this country. Complain quietly, jeez.


  79. - Soo... - Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 4:26 pm:

    =Might as well call them “those people” with that rationale.=

    I’m black, Willy.

    But you ignored or at the very least cherry picked my last comment. While Yes I’m venting due to the correlation from previous experience with people that may or may not be this Mom/family (you don’t know either) I dont hold it against the kids no matter how much snark im projecting on them.

    ====I really do hope Jimmy and Jonny earn their opportunities but I wont hold my breath waiting for them to prove someone like me wrong.

    Lastly Willy, I’ve also noticed how when people express something that comes form a place of personal experience, you just outright dismiss or discount it. I comes off very preachy and lecturing, Like projecting yourself on people you don’t know.

    That reminds me of something you said to me “Your idea that you know more than that is borderline sick too.”


  80. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 4:30 pm:

    ===I’m black===

    “And?”

    You typed…

    ======I’ll say this: I’m allow to have my opinions (based on personal experience with affluent parents in Lake Co.) however much you disagree.===

    Someone, no matter the race decides that’s their rationale…

    ===I(t) comes off very preachy and lecturing, Like projecting yourself on people you don’t know.===

    … says the person projecting their thoughts on two students he/she doesn’t know, and wants that to seem ok. lol

    ===That reminds me of something you said to me “Your idea that you know more than that is borderline sick too.”===

    Projecting on folks you don’t know, yep, I stand by it.


  81. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 4:37 pm:

    - So… -

    ===Little Jimmy and Jonny want to be doctors but are they gonna put in the work for it. Nah, they’ll smoke and drink their way through that 4 year Uni and Med school Mom wants the state to pay for.

    So When schools over and they drop out because they failed to do the work, who will little Jimmy and Jonny run to? Why Mom and Dad of course. In 5 years they’ll be one happy family, Mom, Dad and her their two adult children living in the basement.===

    You want this to be ok to say because of your race?

    I’m confused.


  82. - Da Big Bad Wolf - Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 5:32 pm:

    ==ProTip: if reading the quotes from the mother makes you upset, try going back and reading them in an obnoxious Chicago accent for some comic relief.==

    Wow. I guess some people never miss a chance for some Chicago bashing. Even if the woman is from around Barrington.


  83. - Oswego Willy - Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 6:02 pm:

    ===I’ve also noticed how when people express something that comes form a place of personal experience, you just outright dismiss or discount it===

    Anecdotal is not factual.


  84. - Blue Dog Dem - Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 7:35 pm:

    I have a doctor son. He got two years of undergrad on me and mrs. BLUE. He is nearly $325k in student loan debt. Yearly income a tad below $400k. Albeit, he didnt enter the work world til 30, he will survive.


  85. - Odysseus - Wednesday, Aug 21, 19 @ 8:56 pm:

    “For instance, what if those same parents are swimming in massive dept already, business, home, etc?”

    Median household income in Illinois is roughly $79K. If you can’t make it on 3x what most people have to budget for, then you need professional help.


  86. - Cars - Thursday, Aug 22, 19 @ 10:52 am:

    == The generational wealth she’s going to pass down to her sons - even if they take the loans for it all - will set them up above the vast majority of people in this country. ==

    My guess is there isn’t going to be much generational wealth. This sounds like someone who spends every dime they earn. If it were otherwise, she wouldn’t have to participate in an elaborate ruse to obtain financial aid. A fiscally responsible individual making 200k + a year shouldn’t have a problem helping their kids pay for college. . .


  87. - cars - Thursday, Aug 22, 19 @ 10:52 am:

    == Median household income in Illinois is roughly $79K. If you can’t make it on 3x what most people have to budget for, then you need professional help. ==

    Indeed.


  88. - crazybleedingheart - Thursday, Aug 22, 19 @ 3:40 pm:

    “merit” aid is almost exclusively a reward for being born in an area with high property taxes for public education or to parents who paid for private school, tutors, and test prep.


  89. - Oswego Willy - Thursday, Aug 22, 19 @ 3:43 pm:

    ===almost===

    …but it’s not.

    If it was, then *every* student that is of a similar demographic would get merit scholarships. They don’t.


  90. - Soccermom - Friday, Aug 23, 19 @ 11:56 am:

    Ma’am, there is a third option. It’s called Mom and Dad take out loans to cover the kids’ college educations. And then pay them off.

    It’s not a lot of fun, but it gets your kids through the colleges they want to attend without burdening them with overwhelming debt at the beginning of their careers — and doesn’t require unethical gaming of the system. If you’re earning two bucks a year, you can handle the payments. Please give me a call if you need more info.


TrackBack URI

Sorry, comments for this post are now closed.


* Reader comments closed for the weekend
* *** UPDATED x3 - Pritzker, Curran, Durkin respond *** IEPA issues construction permit to Sterigenics
* *** UPDATED x1 - AFSCME responds *** Janus files union dues refund appeal
* *** UPDATED x1 - "Terminated" by Pritzker administration *** Staff shakeup continues at ALPLM
* Today's number: 37 percent
* Question of the day
* Breaking news!
* Rate James Marter's new campaign video
* The birds are dying
* Wait. What? The Tribune wants downtown cannabis sales
* Opioid deaths declined overall here, but increased for blacks, Hispanics
* East St. Louis firefighter pension fund attempts to trigger state intercept law
* SUBSCRIBERS ONLY - Today's edition of Capitol Fax (use all CAPS in password)
* Yesterday's stories

Support CapitolFax.com
Visit our advertisers...

...............

...............

...............


Loading


Main Menu
Home
Illinois
YouTube
Pundit rankings
Obama
Subscriber Content
Durbin
Burris
Blagojevich Trial
Advertising
Updated Posts
Polls

Archives
September 2019
August 2019
July 2019
June 2019
May 2019
April 2019
March 2019
February 2019
January 2019
December 2018
November 2018
October 2018
September 2018
August 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
December 2006
November 2006
October 2006
September 2006
August 2006
July 2006
June 2006
May 2006
April 2006
March 2006
February 2006
January 2006
December 2005
April 2005
March 2005
February 2005
January 2005
December 2004
November 2004
October 2004

Blog*Spot Archives
November 2005
October 2005
September 2005
August 2005
July 2005
June 2005
May 2005

Syndication

RSS Feed 2.0
Comments RSS 2.0
WordPress




Hosted by MCS SUBSCRIBE to Capitol Fax Advertise Here Mobile Version Contact Rich Miller