43 Comments - statehoss - Thursday, Nov 14, 19 @ 10:23 am: How would a bottle bill help? It doesn’t sound like higher redemption rates helps much, since there are few cost-effective ways to recycle bottles that are returned. Is it more efficient to have retailers deal with large numbers of bottles, rather than putting them in the household bin? I doubt that’s true in any broad societal way, though it’s doubtless cheaper for muni recycling efforts. Aluminum is much more cost-effective to recycle; glass somewhere in between because of its weight. If a bottle-bill targeted only plastic containers, that might push consumers back to aluminum. That seems like the best option. Meanwhile, spinach that used to come in thin bags now comes in plastic boxes that not only use more plastic, but they don’t compress in the waste stream, requiring more trips for the recycling truck; apples and grapes that used to come in thin bags now come in thick plastic complete with a heavy-duty plastic zipper. One step forward, two steps back. - Not a Billionaire - Thursday, Nov 14, 19 @ 10:25 am: Especially since the raw material petrochemicals are going to get really cheap if Rivian makes cost competitive electric trucks. - illinoyed - Thursday, Nov 14, 19 @ 10:27 am: Or just outlaw totally unnecessary plastic water bottles, which used to not exist and now we act like we can’t live without. I know some places you can get water on tap for free… - Huh? - Thursday, Nov 14, 19 @ 10:29 am: The difficulty with plastic is that there are so many types of plastic, some of which may not be accepted for recycling. The general public doesn’t know the meaning of the symbols are that molded into the bottom of the plastic object. https://www.thebalancesmb.com/what-recycling-symbols-mean-4126251 Bringing back the bottle deposit might be the way to go to promote recycling. Recycling in general has become a problem for the trash haulers. My garbage company discontinued accepting glass a couple of years ago. Glass was the original recycling material from the last 60’s and early 70’s. - Abe - Thursday, Nov 14, 19 @ 10:29 am: Yes — but a bottle bill for bottle of all material. Its especially effective for glass, which gets contaminated in curbside pickup. - anon2 - Thursday, Nov 14, 19 @ 10:32 am: Unless the Teamsters’ past opposition to a bottle deposit were removed, it would be hard to pass over the combined opposition of business and labor. - Bigtwich - Thursday, Nov 14, 19 @ 10:38 am: I am aware of the problem. I have made efforts such as switching to frozen orange juice. When I walk to the farmers market I carry a reusable bag. When I drive somewhere to shop I have reusable bags in the trunk. However, they usually stay there. I need help with this. Deposits would help. They would motivate me a little but I am not sure they address much of the problem. The stuff is still being made and is still hard to recycle. There needs to be a tax on new plastic high enough to provide motivation for recycling and other options. Unfortunately that is a national solution. So for the present, yes, let us enact deposits. - Simple Simon - Thursday, Nov 14, 19 @ 10:44 am: == totally unnecessary plastic water bottles,=== I get annoyed with this argument because I don’t drink sodas, but I do get thirsty sometimes when I’m out of the house, and I prefer water. You can’t always bring your reusable bottle from home. Why keep me from a healthy drink yet allow all that sugar? If you outlaw water in disposable bottles, you should also outlaw all drinks. I don’t mind bottle deposits of any kind, but recycling of plastics also might be encouraged if you limit production of plastic containers to a couple of types that can be easily sorted and recycled without contamination by non-recyclable things. - Bruce( no not him) - Thursday, Nov 14, 19 @ 10:47 am: Just what good is a deposit if there is no one to recycle the bottles? ““Now that we are left to deal with it ourselves, plastic is choking our recycling system…” - A Jack - Thursday, Nov 14, 19 @ 10:50 am: I like the idea in the report of right to repair laws. I don’t mind repairing items if the parts are available. I don’t like bottle deposits. The idea of the deposit is to turn in the bottle to get the deposit back. So do you return the bottle to the grocery store? And then the store becomes your recycling point? - Nieva - Thursday, Nov 14, 19 @ 10:51 am: I am all for it. I police the country road going to our house. I picked up 37 Mellow Yellow cans in one small area. Also several garbage bags of trash and plastic bottles in an area less than one mile. I also would love to see a deposit on aluminum cans. - Nanker Phelge - Thursday, Nov 14, 19 @ 10:59 am: How would a bottle bill help? Sounds like the problem is that we have too much plastic and the market for recycling it is not there. So, how would charging more for plastic help? Why not encourage the use of alternative materials? If everything is still in plastic bottles, charging an extra 10 cents (or whatever the rate might be) is probably not going to materially reduce the use of plastic. - Simply Sayin' - Thursday, Nov 14, 19 @ 11:01 am: Deposits work….you rarely see people throwing away bottles/cans in Michigan or other bottle bill states (and when they do, other people reach in and pull out the bottles to get the deposit). So I would assume the 90% recycle rate for bottles/cans is dead on for bottle bill states from my experience. Nowhere close to that % in Illinois. - Levois J - Thursday, Nov 14, 19 @ 11:04 am: I could be reflexively be opposed to this, however, when I used to buy Oberweis milk I had to return the glass bottle to get back my deposit! - Amalia - Thursday, Nov 14, 19 @ 11:08 am: I don’t honestly know if those who are too lazy to recycle are going to bring the bottles back. Look at the rate of recycling in the City. it’s bad, much worse in some neighborhoods than others. I do know that recycling is difficult because manufacturers no longer put the symbol on many plastic pieces. that could help. glass is not considered a real issue because it is inert and just stays in the ground. Plastic will be an issue no matter how recycled or brought back because teeny pieces get into the water. - The Original Name/Nickname/Anon - Thursday, Nov 14, 19 @ 11:10 am: Any action that reduces the use of plastic would be a positive step - Simple Simon - Thursday, Nov 14, 19 @ 11:13 am: ==So do you return the bottle to the grocery store=== They do this all over Europe, including convenience stores and even counters in train stations. ===Just what good is a deposit if there is no one to recycle the bottles?=== This is the point. You an increase the return rate, but they get landfilled or incinerated after return if they can’t be made into new things. - Bruce (no not him) - Thursday, Nov 14, 19 @ 11:15 am: Recycling is great. But, if there isn’t a market for the recycled plastic, just what are we accomplishing by paying a deposit? Someone is going to be stuck with a lot of expensive plastic bottles with no market to unload them. - Don't Bloc Me In - Thursday, Nov 14, 19 @ 11:16 am: I’m in favor of a bottle bill on all cans and bottles, as other states have. I’ve lived awhile in one of those states, and roadsides were much cleaner. It’s past time for Illinois to do this. The plastics problem can only really be solved by addressing it farther up the chain, reducing its use. As consumers, we should choose other options. - Ebenezer - Thursday, Nov 14, 19 @ 11:19 am: The return rates are correct. The material is much more likely to actually get recycled because the deposit works to separate the plastic/aluminum/glass from all the other crap people toss in their recycling bins. This means most of it can be handled by machine and it not nearly as labor intensive to deal with. It will not solve every problem, but its useful. - Emanuel Collective - Thursday, Nov 14, 19 @ 11:29 am: A Michigan-style deposit bill on aluminum cans is a no-brainer. The state has practically no involvement beyond collecting money from unclaimed deposits. And there will always be a market for recycled aluminum - Simply Sayin' - Thursday, Nov 14, 19 @ 11:29 am: -Amalia: “I don’t honestly know if those who are too lazy to recycle are going to bring the bottles back. ” When you pay upfront an extra $2.40 for a 24-pack of cans or $1.20 for a 12-pack of plastic bottles, you will usually bring those bottles and cans back for that $2.40/$1.20 deposit, lazy or not. The bigger question/concern is the supply/demand issue and how to legislate around that. - RNUG - Thursday, Nov 14, 19 @ 11:31 am: I’m going to sound like a curmudgeon. We used to have glass bottles that were recycled because of the deposit fee. A lot of kids had pocket money from picking up disposed of bottles. A few companies still use glass bottles, but they are thinner / cheaper and designed for single use (like Yahoo chocolate drink) or speciality products like the real sugar Coke drinks or, as noted, Oberweis milk. We used to only have paper bags that got reused and eventually recycled one way or another; there were trees grown specifically for paper bag production … unbleached bags weren’t an environmental issue but the tree huggers managed to get them mostly eliminated in favor of plastic. Ban plastic bottles or tax them out of existence, even the kind of biodegradable ones (that really don’t most the time), and bring back the old stuff. It wasn’t quite as convenient as use and toss, but it worked AND provided jobs. Once you have taken those 2 steps, start attacking the whole plastic packaging issue. - statehoss - Thursday, Nov 14, 19 @ 11:32 am: >>totally unnecessary plastic water bottles,=== >I get annoyed with this argument because … (essentially, I have to buy bottled water.) No need to get annoyed. You’ll still be able to grab a water, because water can be canned as well. In recycling terms, the problem isn’t whether people sometimes need to get water. The problem is plastic. The move from aluminum to plastic has been a giant move away from recycling. Some environmentalists used to argue that plastics recycling itself was green-washing, set up to make people feel better about purchasing plastic bottles with higher environmental costs per bottle even when recycled. We’re all so inured to plastics these days that most people don’t bother to make the argument, but it remains true. The best solution is to move back to materials that are truly, easily, and cost-efficiently recyclable. - statehoss - Thursday, Nov 14, 19 @ 11:40 am: Another issue is that in my family, we generate more #1 PET plastic from other sources than bottles. Much of the hard plastic at groceries is #1 PET. This is at least a small challenge to Abe’s idea that a bottle bill would take PET out of the municipal recycling stream. It might take lots of it out. If the solid waste agencies still have to filter for #1 and figure out what to do with it, how much are they gaining? Is the cost savings proportional? I suspect it’s something less than that. - anotheretiree - Thursday, Nov 14, 19 @ 12:03 pm: I recall collecting soda bottles for return in the 60’s. Mistake when we switched to plastic. It takes 1,000 years for plastic to break down. Sunlight photo degrades into smaller pieces but all of it is still in the environment. We’re eating and drinking it. - Benjamin - Thursday, Nov 14, 19 @ 12:19 pm: Deposits on plastic, glass, and aluminum containers are all solid ideas–either it gets recycled cleanly or the state budget benefits. I’d even go a step further and start taxing non-recyclable plastic packaging, to discourage retailers from using it, then lower sales taxes commensurately. - A Jack - Thursday, Nov 14, 19 @ 12:31 pm: When people live in rural areas, it is not economically feasible to take 12 bottles back for $1.20. So you have people hoarding used plastic bottles just like they used to do with aluminum cans. So I guess you are trading an environmental issue for a potential health issue. You may have the same issue in areas where people rely in public transportation to get around. I believe you need a better thought out solution than turning grocery stores into recycling points. - Chris - Thursday, Nov 14, 19 @ 12:32 pm: That 90% number appears to be the value of redemptions as a percentage of deposits, which includes “illegal” returns of containers purchased outside Michigan (ala Seinfeld). Tracking numbers indicated it is something closer to 70% of Michigan purchased containers are redeemed. Which is still pretty good. - ANON - Thursday, Nov 14, 19 @ 12:41 pm: My family recycles everything that we can. We used to have recycling bins about 2 miles away. The county we live in stopped recycling so we had no place to take it. We now drive over 10 miles to find a recycling bin. They need to pass a law that all counties provide a place to recycle at reasonable distances for people who live in rural areas. - Just Me 2 - Thursday, Nov 14, 19 @ 12:54 pm: I practically grew up in Michigan. Bottle deposits were a way of life and just became normal to me as a kid and young adult. Plus, when you were a kid you could always scrounge the neighborhood for candy money. - statehoss - Thursday, Nov 14, 19 @ 12:55 pm: For anyone who wants a deeper dive, google NAPCOR reports to find annual reports on plastics recycling from the trade group for the recyclers. I found it interesting. One important note - by 2014, foreign recyclers accounted for just 25%, with domestic recylers handling 75% of what was recycled. So China’s restrictions are a relatively small part of the issue. American production actually doubled from 2009 to 2014, taking back significant parts of the plastic stream that had been going abroad. But that domestic expanstion leveled off. These facts should structure any discussion of what should be done. I don’t include the link because I don’t understand the filters here and don’t want my comment blocked. - Going nuclear - Thursday, Nov 14, 19 @ 1:11 pm: The system for recycling single-use items is broken. It requires a lot of time, energy and fuel to recycle stuff. The plastic manufacturers, food and beverage companies, waste collectors and retailers have had more than 30 years to come up with a sustainable solution for recycling and they have all failed miserably. Much of the plastics industry is built on selling convenience, where we buy, take away and then throw away single-use disposable packaging. Our disposal economy needs to be shifted to a circular one where there are more refillable, reusable containers. Several product manufacturers recently announced a pilot project for large cities, in which they will sell items like Tropicana orange juice, Axe and Dove deodorants, Tide laundry detergent, Quaker cereal, and Häagen-Dazs ice cream in returnable glass or stainless steel containers. We need encourage more initiatives like this. To do so, I think state government should enact more bans or taxes on single-use products, in addition to deposits that are that are big enough to incentivize the consumer to bring back their packaging to the store, making it the producer responsibility. - Responsa - Thursday, Nov 14, 19 @ 1:46 pm: In my family we try to recycle responsibly and buy packaged goods responsibly. We clean and reuse containers when feasible. However there is much disorganization and contamination in the public recycling system/chain unfortunately, and many items put in bins with good intent end up in landfills anyway. Article after article has been written about this issue as well as exposing the falling world market for recycled materials I definitely do not want to see grocery and other stores which sell drinks in plastic bottles to have to become recycling centers for dirty and used plastic bottles. - Rich Hill - Thursday, Nov 14, 19 @ 2:17 pm: >>Ban plastic bottles or tax them out of existence, even the kind of biodegradable ones (that really don’t most the time), and bring back the old stuff. - Rich Hill - Thursday, Nov 14, 19 @ 2:20 pm: Quoted RNUG at 2:17pm. Bartow Elmore has a great chapter in his book Citizen Coke about the shift to disposable single-use cans and bottles after World War II and the enormous burden it placed on municipalities. Developing penalties to the manufacturer for producing this junk and incentives to bottlers for having reusable jugs, kegs, growlers, and bottles would make a real difference. That might be an environmental law Jim Oberweis would support. - A Jack - Thursday, Nov 14, 19 @ 2:45 pm: I bought some Oberweis Lemonade once in a recycled glass bottle. The lemonade had a sour milk aftertaste. Once was enough for me. - RNUG - Thursday, Nov 14, 19 @ 2:47 pm: == When people live in rural areas, it is not economically feasible to take 12 bottles back for $1.20. == Just do it when you grocery shop, weekly, monthly, whatever. == I believe you need a better thought out solution than turning grocery stores into recycling points. == Used to do it for glass bottles in the 1950’s - 1970’s. If they could do it then, they can do it now. - NoGifts - Thursday, Nov 14, 19 @ 2:52 pm: Simplify the number of plastics used. There are too many types - do we really need that many? Require that all the plastics be recyclable. And you often can’t see the imprint of the plastic number. Recycling plastic is overly difficult and you either don’t do it, or you probably throw un-recyclable plastic in with the rest. - A Jack - Thursday, Nov 14, 19 @ 3:03 pm: In the 1970’s they had lots of people working in grocery stores. Now you might have one person to hand back deposits for a group of people who may have brought back bags full of hundreds of bottles. It won’t take long for people to say its not worth a couple bucks and back into the landfill it goes. Instead, I think easy access recycling points need to be set up where you just take your plastic to be sorted. - Anon221 - Thursday, Nov 14, 19 @ 3:40 pm: Recycling needs to become profitable, one way or another. Our local hauler closed down his free recycling site when the prices bottomed out. Now I have to haul recyclables 25 miles one way. If recycling is not convenient and profitable, then it won’t be done. This is a 21st century issue that must be addressed soon. Landfilling is not the answer. this is our moonshot. - A Jack - Thursday, Nov 14, 19 @ 4:26 pm: Plastic bottles is only one part of the problem. I assume her that we are limiting it to water and soft drink bottles. But darn near everything you buy at a grocery store comes wrapped in plastic, bread, milk, dog treats, and on and on. If chemical recycling can break all that down, then the state needs to have collection points that can be easily accessed and a public awareness program that those points exist. A bottle deposit is just a feel good idea that does not address the larger issues. Make recycling free and easy if you want to get plastics out of landfills. - anon2 - Friday, Nov 15, 19 @ 1:22 pm: == A bottle deposit is just a feel good idea that does not address the larger issues.== This is the hoary argument against reform by making the perfect the enemy of the good. If we can’t solve all the problems, then we shouldn’t start fixing some of them. Sorry, comments for this post are now closed.