* We’ve already discussed this Greg Hinz piece…
Under Pritzker’s order, “The earliest we’d be able to open is on June 26,” Illinois Restaurant Assn. President Sam Toia said. Those restaurants initially shut in early March. “I don’t know any business that can go 16 weeks with 80 percent or more reduce income and stay viable.”
Toia urged Pritzker to move restaurants from phase four to phase three, which sets lesser standards for testing, et al. Restaurants should have to require staff to wear masks and other personal protective gear and at least initially limit capacity, as has happened in some other states, Toia said. But moving restaurants to phase three would allow some to reopen by Memorial Day weekend.
* Toia, who came to the table and bargained with the governor over his minimum wage plan and then did not stand in the proposal’s way, has kept up the public pressure on this topic…
Sam Toia, president and CEO of the Illinois Restaurant Association, said the announcement caught him, and other industry leaders, flatfooted.
“The state did not really collaborate with us,” Toia said, “and we’re the largest private-sector employer in the state of Illinois. We’re having some communication now, but the plans are already out there.” […]
“Even if it’s slowly,” he said. “Let restaurants open June 1 at 25 percent capacity, then 50 percent by June 28. Some states are already open — Indiana, Georgia, Texas, Tennessee. So we’re going to see in another 10 days if there’s a spike in cases. If there is, OK, but if not, why can’t we look at June 1?”
“And when he’s saying the earliest date is the 26th, he’s not saying which region this is,” Toia said. (Pritzker’s plan divides the state into four regions.) “Is it the South? Does that mean Northeast (which includes Chicago) waits even longer?”
* Amanda Vinicky…
The Illinois Restaurant Association is hoping to persuade Pritzker to follow models in other states, where restaurants are allowed to partially reopen at a quarter or half of their capacity.
“We’re not opening till June 26 and we’re not even sure what the occupancy will be at that time,” Toia said. “We know that it’s 50 people or less. But a restaurant with 3,000 square feet is different than a restaurant with 30,000 square feet.”
It’s something he said Illinois restaurants would be willing to try, he said.
* Toia even ran to John Kass…
“Chicago is an independent restaurant town,” Toia said. “That’s what makes it such a great restaurant city. But independents need cash flow, and the governments want their taxes paid. But if something doesn’t change, we’ll lose at least 25% of our businesses, some say it could be 50%. And then what?”
Then Chicago will look like DeKalb, or Bloomington, or most any other Midwest town off the interstate: with a Walgreens on one corner, a Chili’s on the next, and don’t forget that Asian crunch salad at Applebee’s, or is that TGI Fridays?
Stay tuned. Mayor Lightfoot is set to unveil the city’s “reopening framework” today at 1:30. She abruptly canceled the unveiling yesterday, claiming a scheduling conflict. Should be interesting to see if Toia is there today.
*** UPDATE *** The mayor just told the city council that Toia will be at her event.
- Amalia - Friday, May 8, 20 @ 9:35 am:
One thing all enclosed spaces will have to consider is airflow. Your heat and AC systems move air. that moves droplets. this is why indoor spaces especially have major issues.
- Logical Thinker - Friday, May 8, 20 @ 9:36 am:
Do you have the same concerns about grocery stores and every other store/business that has remained open to date?
- Centennial - Friday, May 8, 20 @ 9:38 am:
I like JB and I voted for him, but his administration is issuing mandates in a vacuum without consulting stakeholders. The Workers Comp rule is the best example. Not talking to IRA about restaurant opening timing is another. Disappointing, but perhaps unsurprising.
- Perrid - Friday, May 8, 20 @ 9:39 am:
Ventilation is a real problem for indoor dining. I think there should be some rule about having X amount of windows open, or something.
And with all respect to Toia, I’m not sure his members are going to be seeing a lot of business even if they open at 25% capacity on June 1. I don’t want to get sick.
Here’s some graphs from the NY times showing a drop off before the shutdowns started https://twitter.com/JustinWolfers/status/1258765134643724290?s=20
- efudd - Friday, May 8, 20 @ 9:41 am:
“Do you have the same concerns”
Why, yes I do. Which is why I wear a mask. Also why I don’t spend more than 20-30 minutes in that grocery store, which is, of course, very essential.
- Norseman - Friday, May 8, 20 @ 9:46 am:
Toia is doing what he needs to do to advocate for his members. His only mistake is going to the Trib’s Troll. That instantly blows any credibility you have.
The one thing Toia needs to understand, you may open up but they may not come. I’m not going dine-in until a vaccine is available, an effective treatment is identified, or the public health experts tell me the disease has been contained.
- Ray Gun - Friday, May 8, 20 @ 9:46 am:
Thank you Mr. Toia. I appreciate your advocacy. Please don’t stop and stand firm. Perhaps the Governor can be persuaded to take a more reasonable approach.
- Centennial - Friday, May 8, 20 @ 9:47 am:
Perrid - in reality will restaurants come roaring back on June 1/ Phase 3? Of course not. But folks like Toia, and frankly lots of other similarly situated groups, have been allies to the Administration in the past. And the Administration doesn’t even bother to give them at least a heads up? Or in a more perfect world, consult industry experts before issuing industry mandates? Maybe I am expecting too much given the time, but I thought it was governing 101, to be honest.
- SOIL M - Friday, May 8, 20 @ 9:47 am:
We had lunch at a place in TN a couple days ago. Was great foor, great staff, great experience.
- Oswego Willy - Friday, May 8, 20 @ 9:48 am:
=== Do you have the same concerns about grocery stores and every other store/business that has remained open to date?==
Essential vs. Wants.
No need for restaurants to have seating or any dining.
I need groceries.
If the Illinois Restaurant Association wants to go on the record to they they openly oppose any legal immunity to any infections… then I may look at this differently.
I want restaurants open. I want that. I’m not risking lives so “Appleby’s” can open. Consumer confidence now must include a healthy experience in the dining experience.
- Soccermom - Friday, May 8, 20 @ 9:55 am:
Logical Thinker — also, in a grocery store, I’m moving around, and so are other shoppers. So I don’t risk that 30-minute person-to-person exposure in the same way.
- Froganon - Friday, May 8, 20 @ 9:57 am:
Double for efudd. Wearing a mask while I pick up my pre-ordered groceries and immediately sanitizing my hands in the car and at home does not translate into a fun, restaurant dining experience. We’ll order out and pick up until there is a vaccine or treatments that work.
- A Jack - Friday, May 8, 20 @ 9:58 am:
You can shop at a grocery store with a mask. You can’t really eat at a restaurant with a mask.
- Not a Billionaire - Friday, May 8, 20 @ 9:58 am:
I have not gone in a grocery store either. Order online have them drop it in trunk.
I would not use drive through it take out at a Restaurant that was open. Too many people. Taco Bell in Macomb with a skeleton staff shut itself down for testing and cleaning after one employee got it. No HIPPA issue . The business announced it. Btw really appreciate this.
- Lucky Pierre - Friday, May 8, 20 @ 10:02 am:
Who still thinks the legislature on ice is working out well for the state?
No need to convene any stakeholders and then blindside the largest private sector employer in the state who has helped pass your agenda in the past says it all
- Perrid - Friday, May 8, 20 @ 10:06 am:
“Or in a more perfect world, consult industry experts before issuing industry mandates?”
Talking with people is always good, but the “experts” that matter here are public health experts. I’m fairly certain most restaurants would not have voluntarily closed. They don’t have the expertise telling them it would be important to do. It was public health experts that pointed out the danger and closed them for a time.
- Lucky Pierre - Friday, May 8, 20 @ 10:07 am:
What is plan b if a vaccine is never developed?
One of the dangers of having a Governor who has had the luxury of never having to work a day in their life is they have no concept of the struggles of small businesses.
Not having a stakeholder meeting with the employers large and small in Illinois is inexcusable arrogance.
- Lester Holt’s Mustache - Friday, May 8, 20 @ 10:12 am:
Are the restaurant owners willing to accept financial liability for diners getting sick in their restaurant, as well as financial liability for any and all persons that those diners then go on to infect? Then sure, open right up.
- Grandson of Man - Friday, May 8, 20 @ 10:13 am:
I’m also not venturing out to a restaurant until it’s much safer and have ordered restaurant food for delivery/curbside many times during this pandemic. It’s very important to support our restaurants and order their food now.
- Shytown - Friday, May 8, 20 @ 10:13 am:
I understand that he has to advocate for his members, and perhaps even his job is on the line because he has to deliver something they can view as a win, but unfortunately the restaurant experience does not align well with keeping the virus from spreading. Six foot distancing and wearing masks is nearly impossible and, while I empathize with the situation the restaurant industry finds itself in, the safety and well being of the general public shouldn’t take a back seat to them. Going to Kass was also bad form (desperate). Re lightfoot, given that she and Toia are allies, if she tries to bend rules for him it will fly in the face of everything she has fought for during this crisis. Not a good look.
- Oswego Willy - Friday, May 8, 20 @ 10:13 am:
=== No need to convene any stakeholders and then blindside the largest private sector employer in the state who has helped pass your agenda in the past says it all==
Let’s convene that General Assembly.
First bill to run?
Let’s hold liable businesses open during a pandemic for infections.
Not a bill granting immunity, no, run a bill specific to liabilities to infections happening in places like restaurants.
Your anger is misdirected.
It’s a virus hurting businesses and jobs, not government.
Businesses are not open due to a pandemic.
=== Not having a stakeholder meeting with the employers large and small in Illinois is inexcusable arrogance.===
To do what, exactly?
Can open businesses make this virus “less”?
You can’t legislate consumer confidence or negate consumer fears.
- essentially working - Friday, May 8, 20 @ 10:13 am:
“Essential vs. Wants.
No need for restaurants to have seating or any dining.”
I don’t think it has sunk in with a lot of people if these businesses don’t reopen soon in some reasonable fashion, there won’t be an “Appleby’s” in your community. Eating at “Appleby’s” may not be real high on some people’s list of priorities, but the paycheck provided by “Appleby’s” may be important to the soon to be former employees. Extrapolate that out to how many still closed businesses?
- SKI - Friday, May 8, 20 @ 10:14 am:
No one thinks that restaurants are coming back at the same level they were pre shutdown, but even 15% of previous business is better than the current 0%. A partial reopen of restaurants at least gives these businesses a fighting chance.
Indoor seating is problematic, but many restaurants have outdoor seating that could be utilized in this nice weather and help with social distancing.
- Fighter of Foo - Friday, May 8, 20 @ 10:18 am:
This is terrific news.
- Oswego Willy - Friday, May 8, 20 @ 10:18 am:
=== I don’t think it has sunk in with a lot of people if these businesses don’t reopen soon in some reasonable fashion, there won’t be an “Appleby’s” in your community.===
(Sigh)
If unemployment is close to 20%, one in five, who do you *not* think understands that this is a crisis? You can’t say people don’t understand, and then say it is impacting millions. That can’t be possible.
=== Eating at “Appleby’s” may not be real high on some people’s list of priorities, but the paycheck provided by “Appleby’s” may be important to the soon to be former employees.===
A majority of people polled are looking at restaurants and thinking “I’ll wait”
Open doesn’t mean existing.
Consumer confidence and consumer fears will be the dictating factors to moving forward. Science right now is telling people different things than “open my Appleby’s”
- tea_and_honey - Friday, May 8, 20 @ 10:21 am:
==Those restaurants initially shut in early March.==
Toia must have a very different definition of “early March” than I do.
- Norseman - Friday, May 8, 20 @ 10:22 am:
=== issuing mandates in a vacuum without consulting stakeholders ===
I agree to a point to avoid quibbling over semantics. It’s critical for the state to work with stakeholders to come up with the best framework that addresses the overarching priority of protecting public health, but also recognizes the economic realities and needs of the affected. The bottom line is that stakeholders can’t have veto authority over the steps needed to protect the public health.
- Lester Holt’s Mustache - Friday, May 8, 20 @ 10:26 am:
== If unemployment is close to 20%, one in five, who do you *not* think understands that this is a crisis?==
I don’t think SKI is really implying that people don’t understand it’s a crisis. I think he/she is implying that people who don’t own restaurants and don’t employ people really don’t care whether all these restaurants go out of business or not.
- efudd - Friday, May 8, 20 @ 10:26 am:
“15% of previous business is better”
Yeah, go to a lending organization, ask for start up, and tell them you think you will open at 15% capacity.
As OW said open isn’t existing.
- Jocko - Friday, May 8, 20 @ 10:27 am:
==We had lunch at a place in TN a couple days ago.==
Get back to us in 12 days and let us know how you’re feeling. /S
- Cassie - Friday, May 8, 20 @ 10:31 am:
There is a reasonable approach to maintaining public health by keeping businesses closed without risking their viability. All it would require is the federal government to pay direct, ongoing supports to businesses (or even just individuals). Don’t make them loans. Don’t make it contingent on anything. And don’t worry about whether some firms (or people) need it. Excess will be recaptured via taxes down the road if these payments are treated like the income they are.
It’s what most civilized economies are doing. It’s what ours should be doing.
- Oswego Willy - Friday, May 8, 20 @ 10:33 am:
=== I think he/she is implying that people who don’t own restaurants and don’t employ people really don’t care whether all these restaurants go out of business or not.===
That’s terribly unfair to imply, by - SKI -, due in large part that if service industries are the ones bringing the most to be unemployed, those unemployed, or not, are very concerned that businesses and specifically restaurants in this case won’t open back up. There’s no vacuum that exists in life one might not “know” at the least a small business owner that’s worried they won’t open again in this crisis.
Still, those friends/family/aquatintences can have businesses open, does that mean that business will come back too, right now?
(hat tip to -efudd -)
- Rachel - Friday, May 8, 20 @ 10:34 am:
Soil M - I hope the experience is still perceived as great in 14 days.
Many restaurants are staying closed by choice in Georgia. They appear to be as conflicted as the rest of us. My big concern is forcing workers back by eliminating their unemployment benefits to perform nonessential services. I don’t know how to make a restaurant experience safe and profitable. Filling only a quarter of the seats or only allowing seating outside doesn’t eliminate the dangers of customers with no masks and staff working in very close quarters in the kitchen. And serving at only a quarter of capacity is unlikely to be profitable.
- Perrid - Friday, May 8, 20 @ 10:35 am:
I think Norseman made my point better that I did, lol.
“The bottom line is that stakeholders can’t have veto authority over the steps needed to protect the public health.”
100%
- Amalia - Friday, May 8, 20 @ 10:35 am:
Sam, I have purchased meals from 6 different local places , 4 of them multiple times, during the stay at home phase. Lots of people are doing this. I make note of where I have not purchased and rotate buys. Look at the big list on the Tribune website which guides to what is open. many of us are buying now in this way. we are doing our part. do your part by figuring out how we can exist in a small space, eating for 30 minutes to an hour or more. until you do that, it’s takeout for me.
- Oswego Willy - Friday, May 8, 20 @ 10:38 am:
Concur with - Perrid -, it’s top shelf, - Norseman -
=== The bottom line is that stakeholders can’t have veto authority over the steps needed to protect the public health.===
This… this is looking at this and grasping the reality.
=== Filling only a quarter of the seats or only allowing seating outside doesn’t eliminate the dangers of customers with no masks and staff working in very close quarters in the kitchen. And serving at only a quarter of capacity is unlikely to be profitable.===
This is heartbreaking, it’s leading to anger and frustration, but that lil bit there, that’s a real honest look and what Toia and the Illinois Restaurant Association is probably grappling with too.
- Michael Westen - Friday, May 8, 20 @ 10:39 am:
If Sam hadn’t spent so much time with his lips planted firmly on Pritzker’s (and Rahm’s and Daley’s) ass he’d be more believable now. Plus he really ought to get out more. Plenty of mom and pop businesses in DeKalb and Bloomington.
- Lester Holt’s Mustache - Friday, May 8, 20 @ 10:39 am:
== That’s terribly unfair to imply, by - SKI -, ==
That’s true, and I could very well be wrong - I was reading between the lines a little bit there. I just can’t imagine anyone who thinks people aren’t aware that this is a crisis
- Tired Teacher - Friday, May 8, 20 @ 10:40 am:
This is part of the gut wrenching choices foreced on us all due to the virus. I truly don’t know the answer as to what to do. I suspect it might be a wise idea to see what happens in the states that have already begun this process; health stats in those states may/may not change in a few weeks. (I pray for improvement) I do agree that to going to Kass was a poor move. He has a troll following, but not a productive following at all. I know right now I am glad I am not JB. What immense pressure he faces each day. I know he isn’t perfect, but he is certainly handling this better than I can imagine any of our other governors could have (with maybe the exception of Edgar).
- Original Rambler - Friday, May 8, 20 @ 10:41 am:
Somewhat off topic, I heard that some European countries are considering closing some streets that have a significant restaurant presence so the establishments can expand their outside dining areas. (A quick Google search indicates that Hinsdale is considering this also.)
- Lester Holt’s Mustache - Friday, May 8, 20 @ 10:43 am:
== planted firmly on Pritzker’s (and Rahm’s and Daley’s) ass==
Wait, this gets through the filter? All those commenters here kissing Rauner’s ass over the last 5 years (you know who you are), and we could actually say as much this whole time? So many missed opportunities to say what we actually thought…..
- Nearly Normal - Friday, May 8, 20 @ 10:44 am:
FYI-Bloomington-Normal has a viable restaurant scene that is more than chain restaurants. People here are sharing info via Facebook page (blo-no curbside restaurants) and supporting bars and restaurants with food orders.
- RetiredStateEmployee - Friday, May 8, 20 @ 10:51 am:
Former HHS Secretary Mike Leavitt’s comment in Politico rings true, “In advance of a pandemic, anything you say sounds alarmist. After a pandemic starts, everything you’ve done is inadequate.”
- City Zen - Friday, May 8, 20 @ 10:51 am:
Will restaurants be able to get by on 50% capacity limits, assuming they even can even reach that capacity?
- charles in charge - Friday, May 8, 20 @ 10:51 am:
Toia is holding Georgia out as an example of a state we should be emulating?! Ok . . .
- Pundent - Friday, May 8, 20 @ 10:55 am:
=issuing mandates in a vacuum without consulting stakeholders=
When my doctor says I need to cut out trans fat, I don’t go to McDonald’s for a second opinion.
- Roman - Friday, May 8, 20 @ 10:56 am:
== Who still thinks the legislature on ice is working out well for the state? ==
I get the sentiment of this statement and others like it. But let’s say the legislature is in session, either actually or virtually. Does anyone think a bill to eliminate or drastically alter the governor’s plan would pass?
- In 630 - Friday, May 8, 20 @ 11:00 am:
Cassie’s point about what’s needed to alleviate the pain of the inside time to business is right. When you look at what’s happened around the world- there has been that kind of support, and concerted national efforts at test/trace/isolate. But those kinds of supports are anathema to political money men, and the White House seems to have flat out quit trying on test and trace.
So here we are. Trying to get by on limited resources with noisy people mistaking open for safe (or not caring) and ignoring that “open” is meaningless for business survival until safe exists again.
- MiddleGround - Friday, May 8, 20 @ 11:07 am:
Some restaurants could easily spread tables out in parking or other outdoor areas and at least have an experience of some sort to eat the packaged food on disposable plates/utensils. But there are no guidelines or exceptions. It just assumes that inside is the only way to eat a meal at every restaurant in the State.
If a restaurant just had tables spread out for people to eat their carryout lunch on a flat surface and use a fork or knife it would help some of them. There’s a way to do that in a safe manner. Wish it was an option.
- don the legend - Friday, May 8, 20 @ 11:08 am:
Didn’t JB give the restaurants a huge break by not closing them until March 17, after the St. Patrick’s holiday weekend?
- Pundent - Friday, May 8, 20 @ 11:09 am:
=One of the dangers of having a Governor who has had the luxury of never having to work a day in their life is they have no concept of the struggles of small businesses.=
Are we talking about the Governor who was required to respond to a global pandemic, or the one who decided on his own to stiff small business vendors while he held the state budget hostage?
- Give us Barabbas - Friday, May 8, 20 @ 11:09 am:
With the economy in shambles, the restauranteurs face the double-whammy of limited operations plus a public that can’t -afford- to go out and eat in restaurants. Add to that the fear and uncertainty most people would have about dining-in in a public space. There is no fast way to get things back to quote “normal” unquote for the food-serving business.
Which is why the national level failures at dispensing relief are so terrible. The chefs and waitstaff and etc. from these restaurants need to be getting enough relief funds to live, themselves, until such time as dining-in is practical again. I feel for the restaurant owners. I know they run on thin margins in the best of times. They need relief to pay their utilities, their rents. The state can’t do that; this is what federal government is for, this is what taxes are for.
- Dotnonymous - Friday, May 8, 20 @ 11:10 am:
Those who venture out prematurely are experimenting… on themselves.
I’ll be watching for the results…from home…where the smart people will remain…if they’re smart.
- tea_and_honey - Friday, May 8, 20 @ 11:11 am:
==don the legend==
March 21st at close of business is when they were required to shut down. That’s why saying “forced to close in early March” was a bit of a stretch.
- Louis G Atsaves - Friday, May 8, 20 @ 11:13 am:
So many experts about the restaurant business posting here. And yes, I am being snarky. I come from a restaurant family. To say that most posters don’t have the faintest idea of what these people are up against right now is an understatement. Open a few windows? Change the heating and air-conditioning systems? Mortgages? Business Loans? Rents? Loss of key employees? Bills piling up? Liquor and beer purchases are still COD to these guys. Credit from suppliers are tightening up as the economy struggles. Get a Life Folks, to quote a certain Deputy Governor. With some common sense, limited entries, spacing and moving tables and chairs or simply spacing seating, these businesses can start to reopen in a safe manner. Unlike certain essential businesses, if anyone feels queasy about dining in a restaurant, they can simply avoid dining in a restaurant. That was true before the Pandemic. That will remain true during the Pandemic. That will remain true after the Pandemic, whenever that occurs, if ever. Let’s start looking for solutions instead of people will die if restaurants open fear spreading.
- Pundent - Friday, May 8, 20 @ 11:20 am:
=Does anyone think a bill to eliminate or drastically alter the governor’s plan would pass?=
Be careful what you wish for:
http://ilga.gov/legislation/billstatus.asp?DocNum=5769&GAID=15&GA=101&DocTypeID=HB&LegID=126753&SessionID=108
- Oswego Willy - Friday, May 8, 20 @ 11:20 am:
Oh counselor, how foolish are you…
The “I know” argument”
===I come from a restaurant family===
“Ok”… “you know“.
What I know?
Open doesn’t mean existing.
===Filling only a quarter of the seats or only allowing seating outside doesn’t eliminate the dangers of customers with no masks and staff working in very close quarters in the kitchen. And serving at only a quarter of capacity is unlikely to be profitable.===
Right now going to any restaurant (or any essential business, or anything open) is risking your health. It’s not a safe thing to be outside, the limits of how safe depend on the measures you take, and the limited Covidiots you see too.
=== Let’s start looking for solutions instead of people will die if restaurants open fear spreading.===
Ok, “cousin of Wolfgang Puck”… what are they?
Oh, also… address…
=== Open a few windows? Change the heating and air-conditioning systems? Mortgages? Business Loans? Rents? Loss of key employees? Bills piling up? Liquor and beer purchases are still COD to these guys. Credit from suppliers are tightening up as the economy struggles.===
Pointing at spilled milk isn’t cleaning the mess.
I’ll look forward to your suggestions to the laymen here, “including” me.
- yinn - Friday, May 8, 20 @ 11:24 am:
==Plenty of mom and pop businesses in DeKalb and Bloomington.==
Absolutely. Anyone who thinks all the food options, even in the tiniest towns, consist of Casey’s, Hardee’s, and Dollar General should travel a couple blocks more.
The last time I drove back from business in Springfield, I saw several independent restaurants, including the cutest tea room where I had lunch, off 39 in El Paso, pop. 2800.
At home we dine on restaurant food once a week, which is twice as often as our old habit (not including coffee meetups). The difference now is it’s always delivered, but the restaurateurs are still our neighbors.
- Pundent - Friday, May 8, 20 @ 11:30 am:
=Let’s start looking for solutions instead of people will die if restaurants open fear spreading.=
We have solutions. They’re clear and referred to as the three Ts. They were created in concert with health care professionals. And frankly I have more confidence in these solutions than your “common sense” approach. And as a consumer I won’t be dining in a restaurant until I know we’re making adequate progress on the three Ts.
- Frumpy white guy - Friday, May 8, 20 @ 11:34 am:
Perhaps each restaurant could have a tent over chairs at every table. The tent could have a small motor/filter system to move and purify the air in the tent. We would need a small opening where the plate could fit through and onto the lap of the various customers. When the customer leaves the tent can then be sanitized for the next waiting customer.
- 47th Ward - Friday, May 8, 20 @ 12:25 pm:
I used to work downtown, in the Loop, with tens of thousands of other people who are now either laid-off or working from home. Go ahead and reopen Exchequer, or Miller’s Pub, or Elephant & Castle, there aren’t going to be any customers for those places for the foreseeable future.
There isn’t much the Governor can do about it either. Even if he lifted the stay at home, I will continue to work remotely and so will thousands of others, especially if returning to the office requires a trip on mass transit.
- Logical Thinker - Friday, May 8, 20 @ 12:33 pm:
This is utter insanity. There were tens of thousands of people at bars on St Patrick’s Day weekend all over the state and no massive spike in CV cases occurred. People have been going to stores in the tens of thousands every day for the last 2 months and until last week weren’t wearing masks. The fear factor that permeates any discussion about reopening bars/restaurants is madness.
Let’s take a population of healthy, no comorbidity 20-something year olds in Logan Square. There risk factor of dying from CoronaVirus is next to zero. Can they not congregate? Say they live by themselves and work from home as to mitigate the other concerns of exposure. At some point, we have to get back to these activities or there won’t be anything left.
And to hold out hope for a vaccine as a cure-all is a fantasy. HIV/herpes/flu are all viruses that don’t have cures. For all the discussion of “can’t undie” is any consideration given to those younger people who WILL does because their financial situations deteriorate so much as to leave them no choice or hope?
- Oswego Willy - Friday, May 8, 20 @ 12:40 pm:
- Logical Thinker -
=== This is utter insanity.===
Oh, I agree.
Thinking that open is existing is utter insanity.
You have this obsession that people dying is cool with you if money is to be made.
===HIV/herpes/flu are all viruses that don’t have cures.===
Thank goodness you’re not a doctor.
Explain how HIV is contracted versus Covid-19
Explain the death rate of both herpes… than the flu… to Covid-19
Right now, measurably, Covid-19 is 24 to 40 times more deadly than the flu.
The three stooges, Drs. Oz, Drew, and Phil indicated a 4% death rate is acceptable, that’s 39 times more deadly to the flu.
I know you want Appleby’s open, but people aren’t going to sit in a restaurant right now because you either tell them to “man up” or say they are “utterly insane”
- Logical thinker - Friday, May 8, 20 @ 12:46 pm:
It’s not 4% and you know it. Full stop.
Cite the statistics for people under the age of 50 with no comorbidities.
- Oswego Willy - Friday, May 8, 20 @ 12:47 pm:
This alone… utter insanity, indeed…
=== Let’s take a population of healthy, no comorbidity 20-something year olds in Logan Square. There risk factor of dying from CoronaVirus is next to zero. Can they not congregate? Say they live by themselves and work from home as to mitigate the other concerns of exposure. At some point, we have to get back to these activities or there won’t be anything left.===
Explain asymptomatic carriers who see seniors that are their parents, co-workers, neighbors, grocers, a time that they meet while thinking they’re “in the clear”
I get it, public responsibility abut you’re thing either.
If you own a bar/tavern/restaurant catering to these 20-something’s, then a lot of your takes make sense.
Doesn’t make sense to the dangers to the public, but…
- Oswego Willy - Friday, May 8, 20 @ 12:49 pm:
=== Cite the statistics for people under the age of 50 with no comorbidities.===
There is insufficient testing either way.
We can do this ALL day.
Drs. Phil, Oz, and Drew… who seemingly agree a dollar is worth more than some lives cited 4%… not me.
- Oswego Willy - Friday, May 8, 20 @ 12:52 pm:
=== Dr. Phil joins other social distancing naysayers, like Dr. Oz, another TV doctor who told Fox News’s Sean Hannity on Wednesday that an unmitigated coronavirus death toll might be a “trade-off” worth making to reopen schools. Dr. Drew, known for his 30 years as host of the radio show “Loveline” and as a reality TV regular, also sparked controversy when he compared the coronavirus to the flu. (Unlike Dr. Phil, both Dr. Oz and Dr. Drew are physicians, though neither is an expert in infectious diseases.)===
I’ll give you that you have three “doctors” on your side.
- Pundent - Friday, May 8, 20 @ 12:59 pm:
=The fear factor that permeates any discussion about reopening bars/restaurants is madness.=
How many Covid-19 deaths did we have on March 1st? How many did we have by May 1st. Explain to me where the madness is. You aren’t going to fix this by ordering people to go eat out while the death toll continues to rise.
There’s a plan for reopening. It doesn’t mention a vaccine as a requirement.
- Logical thinker - Friday, May 8, 20 @ 1:12 pm:
Prudent,
Are we waiting until there are zero deaths from CV before resuming normal activities?
OW-
I don’t care what your cited doctors say that somehow you think represents my position. It is widely acknowledged that the morbidity rate from CV when factoring in a random sample of tests is less than 1% across all populations and significantly lower for young/healthy people.
This virus will not be cured and we will not protect ourselves being locked in our homes for an indefinite period of time.
- Oswego Willy - Friday, May 8, 20 @ 1:14 pm:
=== It is widely acknowledged===
CDC? Cite? Dr. Fauci?
===indefinite period of time.===
Not one person has said that. Not one.
Good try, you’re not a victim to something no one said.
- Pundent - Friday, May 8, 20 @ 1:17 pm:
=Are we waiting until there are zero deaths from CV before resuming normal activities?=
Not a single plan has been put forward that requires this - none. There is no plan that requires a “cure” for opening - none. There is no plan that says that we will be locked in our homes for an indefinite period of time - none.
Federal and state guidelines exist for opening. There’s been a lot written about that on this very site. Google is also an option.
- Louis G Atsaves - Friday, May 8, 20 @ 1:17 pm:
Willy, I gave a few suggestions. Pay attention. Your ignorance of the industry is showing. I also spent 25 of my years on this planet working in and managing a restaurant that existed for 79 years. Owned and operated by the same family. At the same location. Grow up. Pay attention. Don’t try to take over any conversations where you haven’t the faintest idea of what you are talking about.
- Oswego Willy - Friday, May 8, 20 @ 1:19 pm:
Let’s look at your… “widely acknowledged”
=== To get to the bottom of this, the National Institutes of Health (NIH) launched a 10,000 person study in mid-April. It aims to determine how many adults in the U.S. who do not have a confirmed diagnosis of COVID-19 who have antibodies against the SARS-CoV-2 virus. The results of this serosurvey will shed light on the spread of this virus throughout the U.S. and on which populations and communities are most affected.
“An antibody test is looking back into the immune system’s history with a rear-view mirror,” said Matthew J. Memoli, M.D., M.S., principal investigator of the study and director of NIAID’s Laboratory of Infectious Diseases Clinical Studies Unit. “By analyzing an individual’s blood, we can determine if that person has encountered SARS-CoV-2 previously.”
Results from the NIH study ought to settle the controversy swirling around other similar studies.===
The NIH will help you out.
- Oswego Willy - Friday, May 8, 20 @ 1:22 pm:
- Louis G Atsaves -
I’ll recap your response;
Table pounding… grow up…
No other suggestions to opening restaurants
Table pounding.
Think that’s it.
Oh.. “this”….
=== With some common sense, limited entries, spacing and moving tables and chairs or simply spacing seating, these businesses can start to reopen in a safe manner.===
Yeah, to “that”
===Filling only a quarter of the seats or only allowing seating outside doesn’t eliminate the dangers of customers with no masks and staff working in very close quarters in the kitchen. And serving at only a quarter of capacity is unlikely to be profitable.===
Yeah… so there’s that.
Your suggestions… don’t seem to answer that grab I had.
- Louis G Atsaves - Friday, May 8, 20 @ 1:25 pm:
Willy, you are the answer man who used to sit at the counter or at a bar and have an answer to everything. Your ignorance is showing on this issue. Get over yourself. The restaurant industry is a tough business made tougher when the ignorant mouth off about it.
- Oswego Willy - Friday, May 8, 20 @ 1:27 pm:
Oh - Louis G Atsaves -
Making it about me, yet again, never works, and again, you ignored your own words and my response to them.
Pounding tables isn’t a response.
- Logical Thinker - Friday, May 8, 20 @ 1:29 pm:
The NIH says the mortality rate is 4%? You keep digging a deeper and deeper hole.
To back up my position, the NYC results are just fine, both in the antibody test showing a much higher number of people exposed and death rates under 50 at
- Oswego Willy - Friday, May 8, 20 @ 1:33 pm:
=== The NIH says the mortality rate is 4%?===
Are you unable to read.. or is this willful ignorance?
=== Results from the NIH study ought to settle the controversy swirling around other similar studies.===
No one knows, the study by NIH will try to settle it.
Keep up, please.
- Centennial - Friday, May 8, 20 @ 1:49 pm:
Perrid and Norseman —
No one is talking about giving stakeholders veto authority. Rather, I am suggesting, consulting with industries prior to issuing industry mandates is instructive to the Administration so they can accomplish public health goals in the least economically restrictive way possible.
Again, no one like surprises. Pick up the phone and give your allies a heads up (at worst) or pick up the phone and consult your allies for their Industry specific Expertise (at best).
- Orca - Friday, May 8, 20 @ 1:55 pm:
OW, Louis, LT, etc…maybe eat a Snicker’s?…you get awfully gruff when you’re hungry.
- Amalia - Friday, May 8, 20 @ 2:27 pm:
listening to mayor lightfoot. clear as mud what will happen with that plan.
- Michael Westen - Friday, May 8, 20 @ 2:30 pm:
It’s always about Willy. There is no issue on the history of the planet that he isn’t the absolute most knowledgeable human being. If you don’t believe that, just ask him.
- Almost the weekend - Friday, May 8, 20 @ 2:56 pm:
The problem is moving the goal posts. JB said 14 days then moved it to 28. And since it is moved to 28 days, why can’t progress in May be considered? I think Toia is right to pushback on this issue. He also needs to be working with local governments to close roads to increase outside seating for venues. It was mentioned Hinsdale proposed this idea and could be adopted in other towns across the state too. This doesn’t only increase seating capacity, but there is concern with HVAC systems regarding the spread of this disease.
- Pundent - Friday, May 8, 20 @ 3:33 pm:
=The problem is moving the goal posts. JB said 14 days then moved it to 28. And since it is moved to 28 days, why can’t progress in May be considered?=
You do realize that two different things are being measured here right? The federal guidelines call for a decline in “cases” over 14 days while the state guidelines call for a decline in “hospitalizations” over 28 days (regardless of cases).
We’re now testing around 14K people a day. That in and of itself will result in more positive “cases” which will make it harder to meet the federal benchmark. Most “cases” don’t require hospitalization. At the same time “hospitalizations” have no connection to the number of tests we run so it is actually much easier to hit the 28 day goal. The goal in the short term should be around reducing the number of hospital beds in use. That’s not moving the goal post, it’s kicking from a shorter distance.
- Norseman - Friday, May 8, 20 @ 3:34 pm:
Centennial, I generally agree with your points. In fact, one of my jobs involved working with stakeholders. Ideally, prior discussions are preferred. That may not be feasible when dealing with lives in an emergency. In such cases action is urgent. Changes can always be made later as more information comes in.